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Thread: How about Hamilton for Hill?

  1. #31
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    (who is their #3 starter and not their #2 as someone earlier suggested.)

    I was the one who suggested that, and there is a pretty good arguement. Heck, you could argue that he's even better than the wildly overrated Zambrano right now. The only thing Zam has is the track record. Based on last year alone, I would feel comfortable saying Hill was better, and with him on the upswing, I'd take him over any Cubs starter for next season.

    He's come a long way since the last time his name came up in trade talks on this board (for Kearns).

    If you think Lilly's better, well they are close, actually really similar players with the FB tendencies, but Hill has a K advantage.

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  3. #32
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Isn't proposing to throw cash in on a deal to a team that apparently doesn't care about payroll kind of like arguing a healthy individual would prefer a pie that was baked using Sucaryl rather than sugar?
    You might be right.
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  4. #33
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    The only way the Cubs could have kept Hamilton was to stiff the Reds and there is only 1 Jim Bowden around.

    A LOT of teams decided to pass on Hamilton at that time. Too much risk. I'm pretty sure that is mollified a lot now. If the Cubs want Griffey over Hamilton then they are stupid and I don't believe that for a minute. I also don't believe that Junior would waive his rights at this point for the Cubs. I also don't believe the Cubs or the Reds would entertain the thought of trading Hamilton or Hill to the other. You deal within the division to improve your team without strengthening your opponent. The Cubs have to be thinking if Hill suddenly becomes lights out and Bailey is as advertised then with Harang and Arroyo and Belisle the Reds are too strong. The Reds have to think with the Cubs pitching staff, handing them the power bat they need might push the Cubs past the catch up point. That's why I see both GMs expecting more in return and that would be the deal killer. Looking for that extra edge to the deal.

  5. #34
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    A LOT of teams decided to pass on Hamilton at that time.
    Only 2. The Reds traded up to the #3 spot to get him.
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  6. #35
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    If the Cubs want Griffey over Hamilton then they are stupid and I don't believe that for a minute.
    I don't think it would be stupid at all.

    Jr.'s got a steady bat (hits every season, hits LHPs as well as RHPs). If you want LH power production for 2008, Jr.'s an awfully good pick.

    He brings star power to a big market team that lacks it (Derrek Lee and Alfonso Soriano are hardly household names). The Cubs want a national spotlight. They compete with the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and Dodgers in that regard. That Jr. is on the verge of 600 HR doesn't hurt either.

    Lou Piniella no doubt highly values Jr.'s character based on his experience in Seattle. My guess is Piniella is interested in adding a guy who knows how to handle himself in a big game.

    Those are all legitimate reasons to prefer a vet like Jr. over someone who brings a big toolbox, but has yet to play a full season in the majors. The Cubs might not want a LH bat who needs to platoon or to bring in a player who hasn't got a lot of experience. What if Hamilton slumps? What if he needs to make an adjustment? How will he react to playing every day? How well will he handle pennant pressure? That's a lot of ifs a team in the Cubs' position might not want to answer.

    If you're talking about the Reds, I'd give you a different answer, Hamilton definitely makes more sense for the Reds. Yet we're not talking about the Reds. We're talking about a franchise staring down the barrel of 100 years without a championship, one that's looking to take a division winner and put it over the top.
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  7. #36
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Only 2. The Reds traded up to the #3 spot to get him.
    No one knew who Krivsky was going to take. If other teams wanted to take Hamilton they could have traded up into one of the top 2 picks. If the Cubs wanted so bad they could have not delt with the reds and taken him with their pick. The Cubs really didn't trade Hamilton they traded the pick. But I believe MLB rules prohibit you from trading picks. Im sure there were a lot of teams with interest in Hamilton but Krivsky took the action to get him.

  8. #37
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    No way I do that deal.

    I don't think very much of Rich Hill, he is a one trick poney.

  9. #38
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    I'd be fine with a Sean Marshall for Hamilton deal as a Cubs fan.

    Hill for Hamilton? I'd expect more in return, considering Hill's success last season and the fact that he's going to be cheap for awhile.

  10. #39
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    The Cubs would never trade Hill for Griffey. I mean, really. The upside of Hill far outweighs the upside for an aging Griffey.

    I don't think Hill for Hamilton will work either without adding other parts. I said this in a previous thread and will again...what about Hamilton for Sean Marshall? The Cubs are not very high on him and he has a lot of upside and is a similar type pitcher to Hill (even if he's not quite as good). I think Hamilton for Marshall would work.

    Also, not sure if anyone else was aware, but the Cubs have already stated they plan to demote Dempster and put him back in the rotation (which is laugahble).
    Last edited by fearofpopvol1; 11-29-2007 at 06:09 PM.

  11. #40
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    No way I do that deal.

    I don't think very much of Rich Hill, he is a one trick poney.
    He sure is tricking the league with that one trick, then, since he has put up two years of stellar numbers.

  12. #41
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Snark alert or no, I suggested that the Cubs *might* be willing to take Griffey and something else in exchange for Rich Hill, (who is their #3 starter and not their #2 as someone earlier suggested.) They also *might* be willing to trade Hill for Hamilton and something else. I suggested that they'd probably ask for Belisle as part of that deal. Either way, neither you nor I know what the Cubs would take for Hill for sure, and that's all there is to it.
    Is the meaning of *might* anything like "it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is"?
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  13. #42
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Hill is a pretty inefficient pitcher, too. Throws a lot of pitches per start. 32 starts only netted the Cubs 195 innings.

  14. #43
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Hill is a pretty inefficient pitcher, too. Throws a lot of pitches per start. 32 starts only netted the Cubs 195 innings.
    I think you're overstating that a bit.

    Hill averaged 96 pitches per start last year and over 6 innings per start. That's not too bad.
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  15. #44
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I think you're overstating that a bit.

    Hill averaged 96 pitches per start last year and over 6 innings per start. That's not too bad.
    Maybe. 6 innings a start is still pretty pedestrian, in my opinion.

    He's 28 next season, too.

    I'd obviously take him, but I have a sneaking suspicion he'd implode in GABP, with this defense.

    For the record, Wrigley used to be an offensive park when NL parks overall were bigger. But nowadays it plays as a neutral park; it has for many seasons, using park factor calculations much more nuanced than ESPN's--and taking many years' data into consideration, not just this year's. Wrigley is neutral. That's all but an established fact. GABP is a HR nightmare; though not altogether an *offensive* nightmare. Trouble is, Hill's Achilles' heel is the gopher ball. For what it's worth, the ESPN park factor thingy says Dodger Stadium is a hitter's park and The Ballpark at Arlington is a pitcher's park. Beware small samples and poor metrics.

  16. #45
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Maybe. 6 innings a start is still pretty pedestrian, in my opinion.
    Historically for sure. These days, not so much. Even Aaron Harang only averaged 6.2 innings a start this past year.
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