Turn Off Ads?
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 84

Thread: How about Hamilton for Hill?

  1. #61
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,847

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    But you've got your three quality starters and freed up 14 mil, right?

    I'm just not for giving up young, cheap, ridiculously talented players for #3 anythings.
    And once again, what in the world good does that "freed up 14 mil" do the Reds at this point? Sign Kyle Lohse, maybe Carlos Silva? Oh wait, its offense that we need. Maybe that 14 mil will get us 3/4 a year of Andruw Jones? I think I'd rather stick it in the bank and collect interest on it. Nah, I think I'll just hang onto Dunn.
    Go BLUE!!!

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #62
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,847

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    I obviously trade Jr. (and whatever else) for Hill in a second. I'd trade Hamilton for Hill in two.

    This team needs another starter, period. Or you can watch the 2008 version of JimBo's paradise.
    Go BLUE!!!

  4. #63
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,963

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I obviously trade Jr. (and whatever else) for Hill in a second. I'd trade Hamilton for Hill in two.

    This team needs another starter, period. Or you can watch the 2008 version of JimBo's paradise.
    Who plays CF for the Reds next season if they trade Hamilton? Let's say Bruce isn't ready. Who would you target?

  5. #64
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,659

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Maybe. 6 innings a start is still pretty pedestrian, in my opinion.

    He's 28 next season, too.

    I'd obviously take him, but I have a sneaking suspicion he'd implode in GABP, with this defense.

    For the record, Wrigley used to be an offensive park when NL parks overall were bigger. But nowadays it plays as a neutral park; it has for many seasons, using park factor calculations much more nuanced than ESPN's--and taking many years' data into consideration, not just this year's. Wrigley is neutral. That's all but an established fact. GABP is a HR nightmare; though not altogether an *offensive* nightmare. Trouble is, Hill's Achilles' heel is the gopher ball. For what it's worth, the ESPN park factor thingy says Dodger Stadium is a hitter's park and The Ballpark at Arlington is a pitcher's park. Beware small samples and poor metrics.
    So what nuances make other data better than ESPN? What factors does ESPN consider that make it invalid? Why isn't ballpark data for the year someone pitched relevant? And I do understand that it will vary somewhat from year to year, but for immediate predictive purposes, it is certainly relevant to ballpark adjust what he has allowed over the last two years.

    Of course, his HR allowed numbers would probably go up a smidge in GAB, but I think to the tune of a 50% increase is as much a dart throw as making a prediction that Belisle will match Hill's numbers this year.

    And, I am no great fan of Rich Hill, really haven't followed him much, but at a glance, he appears to have good basic numbers, and no one has pulled out the DIPS ERA "stay away" warning yet, so I'm assuming there is nothing hidden in his first two full years that causes bells and whistles to go off, other than a HR warning, which I simply think you are greatly exaggerating.
    Last edited by traderumor; 11-29-2007 at 10:43 PM.

  6. #65
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,847

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Who plays CF for the Reds next season if they trade Hamilton? Let's say Bruce isn't ready. Who would you target?
    Jay Bruce.

    If he isn't ready, I'd let Hopper, Freel, and Dickerson battle it out. Ideal? No, but I'd rather worry about centerfield defense than pitching.

    Or you could always take a flier on Corey Patterson. He's a FA I believe, and I wouldn't be strongly opposed to that.
    Go BLUE!!!

  7. #66
    Member Spitball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,622

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Jay Bruce.

    If he isn't ready, I'd let Hopper, Freel, and Dickerson battle it out. Ideal? No, but I'd rather worry about centerfield defense than pitching.

    Or you could always take a flier on Corey Patterson. He's a FA I believe, and I wouldn't be strongly opposed to that.
    Personally, I think Bruce is to valuable offensively to groom as a center fielder. Center fielders wear down and are injured way too often. I believe Eric Davis may have put up near Hall of Fame numbers if he had been a corner outfielder his whole career. Of course we would have missed out on some awesome plays, but like many other center fielders, his super years were far too short due to injuries.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  8. #67
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,160

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Who plays CF for the Reds next season if they trade Hamilton? Let's say Bruce isn't ready. Who would you target?
    Reggie Willits
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  9. #68
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    5,882

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Then all of a sudden you've blown a massive hole in the hull of the offense.
    This is true IF you plan on/can sign Dunn past the 08 season. This is why I basically said in another thread, that a resolution to AD's future status with the Reds should be THE #1 priority for this offseason.

    I think the $25M influx of cash (mentioned in another thread makes re-signing Adam much more plausible and if it's gonna get done it needs to be done no later than 1/1 (preferrably sooner).

    If you can re-up him then Hamilton or Votto become more expendable in a deal for a top starter. If it is apparent that he is definitely going on the market, Hamilton, Votto and Bruce go no where.

    If you can't (or if WK chooses not to) re-sign Dunn, then I see if I can't work with AD & his agent to find a way around the no-trade clause and get a list of teams he would accept a trade to. I'd ask them for what it might take for another team to keep him off the market so I could give the other team an idea in case of a 72-hr. wndow situation and I would make it clear that I wouldn't be crying "Tampering!" if they discreetly had some backdoor contacts to guage what's out there from his favored team(s).

    Then I would work my best deal for him sooner than later.

    If he stays and Votto were to go I would talk to him about moving to first down the road.

    In addition, if somebody offers me anything of value for Junior I take it and I try to add a solid defensive CF (prefferably one who could hit leadoff). I would also try to make an offer of 2 or 3 secondary prospects (Rosales, Stubbs, Francisco, Janish, LeCure, Wood, Thompson, Watson, Pelland - maybe even Roenicke or Viola) and maybe a reliever (Salmon, McBeth, Majewski, Coutlangus) to th BoSox for Coco Crisp,

    I wouldn't include a prime chip for Crisp though unless Lester or Bucholz were in the return, so that probably dooms a deal.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 11-29-2007 at 11:34 PM.

  10. #69
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    5,882

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Who plays CF for the Reds next season if they trade Hamilton? Let's say Bruce isn't ready. Who would you target?
    What's Reggie Taylor up to these days?

  11. #70
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Rainelle, WV
    Posts
    8,110

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Who plays CF for the Reds next season if they trade Hamilton? Let's say Bruce isn't ready. Who would you target?
    It doesn't matter. You see, in the minds of some it's all pitching, and they may be right.

    But, I contend that exchanging Hamilton, providing he's healthy for a full season for Hopper or a rookie puts serious strain on Hill or a pitching staff that is just recovering from years of neglect and inept moves. I'm assuming that Hamilton, used correctly, will drive in 100+ runs (and that's a big assumption I know). Stand that with Hopper's 30 or Bruce's maybe 65 (and that's a stretch sincehe may be the next Brandon Larson). Would Rich Hill pitch well enough over a season to gain 40-65 runs? I doubt it.

  12. #71
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,160

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Jay Bruce is so NOT Brandon Larson.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  13. #72
    Member Jpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Southern KY
    Posts
    6,967

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    no way I would trade Josh Hamilton for Rich Hill. VR, I am right with you.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  14. #73
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Rainelle, WV
    Posts
    8,110

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Jay Bruce is so NOT Brandon Larson.
    I'm not being contrary here, but how would you know?

    I wish I had $1 for every "can't miss" prospect who came to the majors. If that's the case, bring him up now and to Hades with whatever else we have. Trade Hamilton, who has proven himself, get rid of that albatross of a contract Griffey has, and get rid of lazy Adam Dunn and just let Jay shine. Sort of the anti-Denorfia who will surely be a triple crown winner in the AL at Oakland.

    A wise old man once said a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. i'll take my chances with Hamilton over a kid who hasn't proved anything at the MLB level.

  15. #74
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,283

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I'm not being contrary here, but how would you know?

    I wish I had $1 for every "can't miss" prospect who came to the majors. If that's the case, bring him up now and to Hades with whatever else we have. Trade Hamilton, who has proven himself, get rid of that albatross of a contract Griffey has, and get rid of lazy Adam Dunn and just let Jay shine. Sort of the anti-Denorfia who will surely be a triple crown winner in the AL at Oakland.

    A wise old man once said a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. i'll take my chances with Hamilton over a kid who hasn't proved anything at the MLB level.
    Name me some 'cant miss' hitting prospects that missed that were as highly touted as Jay Bruce.
    Since 1990, here is the list of Baseball America's #1 hitting prospect.
    Alex Gordon
    Delmon Young
    Joe Mauer (twice)
    Mark Teixeira
    Hank Blalock
    Josh Hamilton
    Pat Burrell
    JD Drew
    Ben Grieve
    Andruw Jones (twice)
    Alex Rodriguez
    Cliff Floyd
    Chipper Jones (twice)
    Andujar Cedeno (really, what were they thinking? He hit .303/.341/.452 that year in AAA at age 21. Young, but the best hitting prospect in baseball? Klesko, Mo Vaughn and Pudge Rodriguez also made the top 10 that year)
    John Olerud

    So yeah, I guess Cedeno was a huge miss, but really the rest of the guys were pretty good. Still pretty early on Young and Gordon....I don't think Bruce follows in Cedeno's footsteps though, considering what he did in AAA this year at age 20.

  16. #75
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,768

    Re: How about Hamilton for Hill?

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    This is true IF you plan on/can sign Dunn past the 08 season. This is why I basically said in another thread, that a resolution to AD's future status with the Reds should be THE #1 priority for this offseason.

    I think the $25M influx of cash (mentioned in another thread makes re-signing Adam much more plausible and if it's gonna get done it needs to be done no later than 1/1 (preferrably sooner).

    If you can re-up him then Hamilton or Votto become more expendable in a deal for a top starter. If it is apparent that he is definitely going on the market, Hamilton, Votto and Bruce go no where.

    If you can't (or if WK chooses not to) re-sign Dunn, then I see if I can't work with AD & his agent to find a way around the no-trade clause and get a list of teams he would accept a trade to. I'd ask them for what it might take for another team to keep him off the market so I could give the other team an idea in case of a 72-hr. wndow situation and I would make it clear that I wouldn't be crying "Tampering!" if they discreetly had some backdoor contacts to guage what's out there from his favored team(s).

    Then I would work my best deal for him sooner than later.

    If he stays and Votto were to go I would talk to him about moving to first down the road.

    In addition, if somebody offers me anything of value for Junior I take it and I try to add a solid defensive CF (prefferably one who could hit leadoff). I would also try to make an offer of 2 or 3 secondary prospects (Rosales, Stubbs, Francisco, Janish, LeCure, Wood, Thompson, Watson, Pelland - maybe even Roenicke or Viola) and maybe a reliever (Salmon, McBeth, Majewski, Coutlangus) to th BoSox for Coco Crisp,

    I wouldn't include a prime chip for Crisp though unless Lester or Bucholz were in the return, so that probably dooms a deal.
    Good post and right on. I'm not sure that $25 Million is as much a windfall as we're making it out to be. They've been getting 8 figures for a while now and the increment to $25 Million is what sets the payroll at around $80 Million per my guesstimation. I doubt there is much more room without some subtractions.

    It's time to lock Dunn up and if it can't be done move him. Signing or coming to the realization that Dunn be moved is priority number 1. That decision goes a long way toward determining how many and which of the young bats can be moved. If Dunn goes for the rotation help needed, the others should all stay IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25