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Thread: Think This Deal Would Fly?

  1. #1
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    Think This Deal Would Fly?

    It involves prying away Matt Cain from the Giants:

    Hamilton, Encarncion and Cueto for Cain.Would you do it?
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    Too much. We don't know yet how good Cueto could be. But I'd try the two bats, or ask for Lincecum and a bullpen arm or B prospect.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  4. #3
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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    Agreed, too much. Hamilton and Encarnacion would be as far as I would go. I'd rather do one of those guys with Cueto. If they want all three, forget it.
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  5. #4
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    Cain has great comps, but that's too steep a price to pay.

    Wayne Simpson and Joe Coleman are just two of those guys who blew their arms out.

    As a side note, Matt Keough and family can currently be seen on "Real Housewives of the OC "

    Code:
    STRIKEOUTS/9 IP               SO/9 IP   BB/9 IP   BR/9 IP     IP       GS     
    1    Tom Gordon                 8.68     4.72    12.62    532         64   
    2    Jose Rijo                  8.22     4.36    12.97    564         73   
    3    Ryan Dempster              7.78     4.79    14.21    428         69   
    4    Matt Cain                  7.66     3.81    11.33    437         70   
    5    Floyd Youmans              7.64     4.67    11.66    412.1       67   
    6    Carlos Zambrano            7.55     4.10    12.47    539.2       80   
    7    Joe Coleman                6.44     3.64    11.78    467         65   
    8    Clay Kirby                 6.42     4.16    12.33    698        105   
    9    Jaret Wright               6.35     4.30    14.13    416.2       74   
    10   Gary Gentry                6.14     3.56    11.26    422         64   
    11   Pete Broberg               5.98     4.37    13.26    420         63   
    12   Mark Gubicza               5.40     3.88    12.14    547         81   
    13   Wayne Simpson              5.32     4.40    12.26    423         69   
    14   Jon Garland                5.09     3.97    13.41    571         94   
    15   Matt Keough                4.88     4.00    13.69    416.2       66   
    16   Dan Petry                  4.74     3.78    11.97    649.2       97   
    17   Jim Slaton                 4.12     3.67    12.50    468         69   
    18   Jamey Wright               3.82     4.16    15.57    447.1       75

  6. #5
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    Flyball pitcher, mediocre control. His home ERA is 3.28 and his road ERA is 4.32. I worry that he's being helped out big time by Pac Bell in terms of HR/FB. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him without a doubt. I just think his value is slightly inflated thanks to his home park and wouldn't give that that specific package for him. Make it Wood instead of Cueto and I'd have to think hard about it.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    I don't give up much. Hamilton and Wood for Cain, see where it goes from there. I could see throwing in another guy, but not a top 5 prospect of a current starter.

  8. #7
    You're being very UnDude. sonny's Avatar
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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    Folks here seem to have an itchy trigger finger when it comes to dealing Hamilton. What gives?

    He's a young, talented and could be a cornerstone to rebuilding a great franchise. I don't think he's untouchable, but for Cain? Hammy's a special player, we should get a special player in return. And I mean SPECIAL.
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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by sonny View Post
    Folks here seem to have an itchy trigger finger when it comes to dealing Hamilton. What gives?

    He's a young, talented and could be a cornerstone to rebuilding a great franchise. I don't think he's untouchable, but for Cain? Hammy's a special player, we should get a special player in return. And I mean SPECIAL.
    It's not that people want to get rid of him, it's that the team needs to address pitching and he is 1 player that has value that teams would maybe want and he is the most expendble as a result (especially with Bruce coming up).

  10. #9
    You're being very UnDude. sonny's Avatar
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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    It's not that people want to get rid of him, it's that the team needs to address pitching and he is 1 player that has value that teams would maybe want and he is the most expendble as a result (especially with Bruce coming up).
    I understand that. But for IMO second tier talent, his name is seemingly always mentioned. The way I see it, We have 2 needs in the OF with Griffy in the winter of his career and the need for an everyday CF.

    Keep Hamilton unless a GM is going to give up ALOT for him.
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  11. #10
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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    So would you part with one or two of the following crown jewels (Bruce, Votto, Hamilton, Bailey and Cueto) to bring in a number 3 guy like Haren, Bedard or even Cain?

    And given how so many teams need pitching, teams offering pitching can sift back and look at the best offers. And if you're the Reds are you looking to win now or looking at four or five years down the road? If you're looking down the road then you keep the five.

    But I don't think they brought Baker here to oversee a rebuilding project. The emphasis is to win now. If that is the case and the Reds need another starter, I can see one or two of these five jewels being dealt to get that starter.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  12. #11
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    So would you part with one or two of the following crown jewels (Bruce, Votto, Hamilton, Bailey and Cueto) to bring in a number 3 guy like Haren, Bedard or even Cain?

    And given how so many teams need pitching, teams offering pitching can sift back and look at the best offers. And if you're the Reds are you looking to win now or looking at four or five years down the road? If you're looking down the road then you keep the five.

    But I don't think they brought Baker here to oversee a rebuilding project. The emphasis is to win now. If that is the case and the Reds need another starter, I can see one or two of these five jewels being dealt to get that starter.
    Here's the thing though-Bruce, Votto, Hamilton, Bailey and Cueto are basically major league ready talent right now. I don't see their inclusion on the 25 man roster as a rebuilding project.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #12
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    I have this problem - why do we value everyone else's players so highly and undervalue our own. Why should it take TWO of our best prospects to land a player like Cain? He's not worth it. I'm willing to bet right now he won't be a better pitcher than Bailey with the sole exception of 2008 - ad may not be that much better in 08. Bruce has adjusted and quickly to every level thrown at him - I'm as sure of him as I ever have been about a player who hasn't been in the ML yet. Hamilton proved his worth. Votto proved he's a hitter. Bailey didn't blow people away but he DID show he has the talent, he's just young. Cueto, yes he hasn't shown it in the ML yet but he too has adjusted and succeeded at every level thrown at him. These guys are good and possibly special. The last thing I want the Reds to do is panic themselves into a deal where they gut their system for a quick fix. Win the deal, or get even return in the deal - or don't make the deal.

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    Re: Think This Deal Would Fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    So would you part with one or two of the following crown jewels (Bruce, Votto, Hamilton, Bailey and Cueto) to bring in a number 3 guy like Haren, Bedard or even Cain?

    And given how so many teams need pitching, teams offering pitching can sift back and look at the best offers. And if you're the Reds are you looking to win now or looking at four or five years down the road? If you're looking down the road then you keep the five.

    But I don't think they brought Baker here to oversee a rebuilding project. The emphasis is to win now. If that is the case and the Reds need another starter, I can see one or two of these five jewels being dealt to get that starter.
    I'd comsider Haren and Bedard as #1 or 2-type starters and would certainly send 1 of the Jewels and a B prospect or two. I might consider two of the Jewels, but would probably want to widen the return I receive a little.

    Cain, to me is a #3-trpe (and not even one of my favorites, at that). If I'm stymied everywhere else I offer a package of B talent first (maybe Freel, Watson, Salmon) first, then maybe I go Encarnacion, Maloney, Coffee next. If I'm desperate enough, maybe I even consider one of the big Five, but not with any kickers on my part and not even straight up. I want at least another warm body and probably widen the deal on both ends.

    I'd rather see a bigger fish along the lines of Kasmir, Haren, Harden, Bedard, Chamberlain, Hughes, Lester or Bucholz. Even if I fail though, Cain is down my pecking order of guys like Snell, Baker, Slowey, Blanton, Kennedy, etc. and I might even consider a guy like Bonser, Capuano or Ervin Santana over him if they could be had without expending as much talent in return.


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