Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24

Thread: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

  1. #1
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,078

    To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    The deadline is 9PM tonight and the Reds have (According to MLB4u.com) 4 players eligible. Those Reds are:

    Jorge Cantu
    Gary Majewski
    Matt Belisle
    Brandon Phillips

    I got to believe everyone will be offered arbitration. Although with the signing of Cordero and the roller coaster ride Mejewski has displayed I wouldn't be surprised to see him not receive arbitration.

    Some other candidates I would keep my eye on are:

    Juan Cruz
    Mike Gonzalez
    Willy Taveras
    Nate Robertson
    Logan Kensing
    Jimmy Gobble
    Dallas McPherson
    Dave Bush
    Chris Capuano
    Duaner Sanchez
    Josh Towers
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


    2008 Reds Record When I Attend: 9W - 5L

    2009 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 2L

    2010 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 0L

    2011 Reds Record When I Attend: 0W - 1L

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,431

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    If Gary Majewski qualifies for arbitration this year, that means he qualified as a super two. I believe his service time is at 2.116, but the normal cutoff time for a super two is between 2.128 and 2.140. I hope MLB4u.com is wrong about Majewski being eligible for arbitration.

  4. #3
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    10,773

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    the normal cutoff time for a super two is between 2.128 and 2.140.
    You probably know this, but this varies every year. If I recall correctly, they just take a certain percentage of 2+ guys. The top 17% or something like that. If all the teams try to play games with service time, then that bar is going to constantly go down.

    I would not tender a contract to Belisle or Cantu, and I would make a decision on Majewski based on his medical reports.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  5. #4
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    7,154

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    Majewski's the only one I would consider non-tendering. Belisle can still an effective reliever if he continues to struggle as a starter, and as evidented by the appreciation thread I made for him, I like Jorge Cantu and think he's a valuable bench/platoon player.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  6. #5
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,703

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    I'd offer all three but I'd deal Maj and Cantu before it matters.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  7. #6
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    24,874

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    I'd send Majewski hate-mail, not a contract offer. I really think it's an important step for Wayne to admit he totally blew that trade, non-tender him and cut ties altogether. Mea culpa to the faithful fans who stuck around in the games Majic pitched in. Kitty Duran, I'm thinking of you.

  8. #7
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,431

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    You probably know this, but this varies every year. If I recall correctly, they just take a certain percentage of 2+ guys. The top 17% or something like that. If all the teams try to play games with service time, then that bar is going to constantly go down.
    Some people say it's the top 17%, and other say it's the top 16%. My guess is just that it's the top one-sixth (16.67%). More than half the time since 1990, to fall under the 'super two' category, you needed between 2.130 and 2.140 of service time. For the number to be as low as 2.116, it would surprise me a bit, especially since the cutoff has never been under 2.120. I could be wrong, but I believe there's a rule against intentionally keeping a player's service time down just to avoid him from getting super two status, but granted, it could be difficult to prove that a team intentionally did it. A little bonus fact is that the player must have had at least 86 days in service time in the prior season,

  9. #8
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,703

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not an immediate crisis. The deadline today is for offering arb to free agents to try and retain them through arb or for compensation purposes. The non-tender deadline for the non-free agents is later and the decision on Belisle, Maj and Cantu does not need to occur today. It used to be in January I believe, but I think its been moved up. Hopefully Maj and Cantu can be packaged in a a deal for a good pitcher or a prospect.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  10. #9
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    10,773

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    I hated the Majewski trade, but if he's medically capable of inducing groundballs and giving you a 3.50 ERA in middle relief, then I have no problem paying him commensurate with similar relievers with 3 years of service time. That's all we're talking about here.

    If he's irreparably damaged goods, then cut him loose.

    Belisle is different. Career ERA near 5.00. His only decent year was a year where he pitched only 40 innings, and his peripherals were not great that year. He's a bad pitcher, and I don't want an arbitrator telling us how much to pay him.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  11. #10
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West N. Carolina
    Posts
    55,572

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Hopefully Maj and Cantu can be packaged in a a deal for a good pitcher or a prospect.
    Maj wouldn't bring a bucket of rotten carp and Cantu was available for dirt cheap last season, I doubt either helps a trade for any value.

    I'd nontender Majewski now, just to get it over with.
    Go Gators!

  12. #11
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    10,773

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Some people say it's the top 17%, and other say it's the top 16%. My guess is just that it's the top one-sixth (16.67%). More than half the time since 1990, to fall under the 'super two' category, you needed between 2.130 and 2.140 of service time. For the number to be as low as 2.116, it would surprise me a bit, especially since the cutoff has never been under 2.120. I could be wrong, but I believe there's a rule against intentionally keeping a player's service time down just to avoid him from getting super two status, but granted, it could be difficult to prove that a team intentionally did it. A little bonus fact is that the player must have had at least 86 days in service time in the prior season,

    Here's what the document says. You're right about the 86 days in the prior year. Did Majewski have that (assuming he's not 3+)? It's 17%.

    "In addition, a Player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if: (a)
    he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season; and (b) he ranks in the top seventeen percent (17%) (rounded to the nearest whole number) in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.
    If two or more Players are tied in ranking, ties shall be broken
    consecutively based on the number of days of service accumulated in each of the immediately preceding seasons. If the Players remain tied, the final tiebreaker will be by lot."

    http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  13. #12
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,703

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Maj wouldn't bring a bucket of rotten carp and Cantu was available for dirt cheap last season, I doubt either helps a trade for any value.

    I'd nontender Majewski now, just to get it over with.
    Obviously they can't bring anybody but they can be throw ins. I think Maj has some value to a team looking for an extra arm and Cantu might be a cheap RH bat for a team like KC. I'm not completely opposed to keeping Cantu as a caddy for Votto.
    Last edited by mth123; 12-01-2007 at 12:49 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #13
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    10,773

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not an immediate crisis. The deadline today is for offering arb to free agents to try and retain them through arb or for compensation purposes. The non-tender deadline for the non-free agents is later and the decision on Belisle, Maj and Cantu does not need to occur today. It used to be in January I believe, but I think its been moved up. Hopefully Maj and Cantu can be packaged in a a deal for a good pitcher or a prospect.
    Looking at the CBA the deadlines are:

    Dec 12 - the commissioner communicates tender letters to players (it's possible that clubs have to get these to the commish sooner).

    At this point, the Club is locked into arbitration, assuming the player wants to go to arbitration, without paying some sort of severance.

    Jan 12 - club deadline to tell the player you're submitting
    Jan 15 - deadline for submitting arbitration figure
    Feb 1-20 - hearings
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  15. #14
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,431

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    Here's what the document says. You're right about the 86 days in the prior year. Did Majewski have that (assuming he's not 3+)? It's 17%.
    I believe Majewski had 76 days of service time in 2007.

  16. #15
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,431

    Re: To Offer Or Not To Offer.. Arbitration Deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    Looking at the CBA the deadlines are:

    Dec 12 - the commissioner communicates tender letters to players (it's possible that clubs have to get these to the commish sooner).

    At this point, the Club is locked into arbitration, assuming the player wants to go to arbitration, without paying some sort of severance.

    Jan 12 - club deadline to tell the player you're submitting
    Jan 15 - deadline for submitting arbitration figure
    Feb 1-20 - hearings
    Whether the player wins or the team wins, the contract is non-guaranteed. In other words, after a player is awarded a certain amount in arbitration, if the Reds cut him before March 14th, they need to pay him only 30 days' termination pay. If the player is cut between March 15th and March 31st, the Reds must pay 45 days' termination pay. With that said, I'm all for offering Gary Majewski arbitration (assuming he's eligible, which I doubt).


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25