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Thread: Reds at Winter Meetings

  1. #16
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Last year the Reds did nothing at the Winter Meetings. Pattern? Don't know yet, but Wayne's avoided the more traditional routes.

    Don't know if that's good or bad or neither.
    Yeah, getting Burton and Hamilton was really resting back on the heals, eh?
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

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  3. #17
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    This thread is for Reds news at the meetings, rumors, or ideas.

    Reds have to get some more pitching, either at the meetings or after. They didn't sign Cordero for $46 million to go with the current starting staff. Last year, the Reds staff wasn't good but they had three veteran starters -- now they have Harang, Arroyo, and some young promising guys

    Seems to me Reds have a few choices to beef up starting pitching:

    A free agent. I know the pickings are slim, but would they go for a Silva now that Castellini has opened the vault a bit?

    A trade for a top guy. Bedard, for example, would be great. Will the Reds part with a Cueto (in addition to Hamilton and, say, Freel) if necessary to get such a pitcher?

    A lesser deal. Hamiton, Freel and a lesser prospect for a solid pitcher, although not at the star level.

    Is there a more experienced pitcher out there, still pretty good but nearing the end, who might be obtainable for a year or two? Livan Hernandez? Someone in a trade?

    Are there other needs to be addressed at the meetings? If Hamilton is traded will Reds get a stopgap center fielder to platoon with Hopper? Is the catching set? Are there more bench guys to be acquired? Are Griffey and Dunn set as Reds for '08 or is one available for a surprise deal? Will an infielder be moved to give Keppinger a full time job? Or will Kepp be moved to start for someone else?

    Any ideas out there? And any news would be appreciated.
    I think that the trade market no longer reaches critical mass at the Winter Meetings like it used to, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them take another step (or three) in what I expect to be a faily active off season for the club.

    My prioriites, if I'm running things:


    1. Resolve Adam Dunn's future with the club one way or another. I think knowing what I'm gonna do about Dunn is essential before I make can make a decision about including a young guy like Bruce, Hamilton or Votto in a deal for pitching.

    AD's comment that there haventeven been discussions lead me to one of three conclusions: a) Dunn was being coy; b) the Reds donn't share my priority for resolving the status as a precursor for offseason dealings or c) they already have resolved not to sign him past this season and he may be the one dealt before ST.

    2. Starting pitching. I think they ideally need to add two more starters if they possibly can get the the right deals. If they add a top of the rotation guy (a #1 or 2) then a league average 4 or 5 type to compete with holdovers and the young guns is find. If they can't land a top starter then I'd like to see them add a couple of #3 types

    Top of the rotation type starters to target:

    Bedard (BAL), Kasmir (TAM), Harden (OAK), Harden(OAK), Burnett (TOR), Bucholz (BOS), Lester (BOS), Camberlain (NYY), Hughes (NYY)

    Secondary options:

    Blanton (OAK), Snell (PIT), Baker (MIN), Cain (SF), Hill (CHC), Marshall (CHC), Kennedy(NYY), Pelfrey (NYM)

    Adding a FA starter without giving up talent would be great , but there are no top of the rotation guys out there. I might consider Silva as a 4th or 5th starter, but you'll probably have to pay him #2 money so no thanks. I'd take a look at Jon Lieber or Randy Wolf as a year stopgap or Clement or Colon on an incentive-laden deal.

    3. I take any young talent at any position, but I would particualrly be on the lookout for a strong defensive CF, a RH OF bat as a PH or starter-option against strong LHP and a strong defensive middle infielder and or catcher o make Gonzalez and/or Ross expendable in a deal. I like our bullpen now, but a young upgrade is always welcomed.

    BAIT:

    * I make Bailey or Cueto available if it means the right experienced 1 or 2-type starter is added

    * I make one from among: Hamilton, Votto or Bruce (last resort) available in a major deal if I know Dunn is staying

    * I do everything in my power to move Dunn for the best return possible if I'm not bringing him back in 09.

    * I would move Junior for anything of value (I doubt the Reds will though)

    * Ross and Gonzalez are available in any deal if I'm adding a SS or C in a deal

    * Freel and Stanton are available if any one will offer anything

    * One or maybe two middle relievers from among Coffey, Salmon, Majewski, McBeth & Coutlangus are available if it finishes the right deal

    * Any Minor leaguer not named Bailey, Cueto, Bruce or Votto is available if it substaintially inpvoes the big league club

    * Several have mentioned dealing EdE. He is by no means untouchable, but I think I'd resist, if possible, for three reasons -

    1) Low value - I think he can bounce back and at least give us .280/20/80 with improved defense

    2) No real replacement ready. I don't like the thought of Keppinger or Freel as the everyday 3B and decent 3B's are a pretty rare commodity to go after on the market

    3) I'd like to let someone like Frazier have another year to get closer to the majors.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 12-01-2007 at 04:34 PM.

  4. #18
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Thats kinda what I'm going for, just a feeling of 'being there'.

    I sincerely don't expect Krivsky to sit down next to me and say "Hey, you're that guy from Redszone, I need you opinion on this trade I'm working on."
    True...But George Grande did sit down next to me last year...
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  5. #19
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by pahster View Post
    Please, no! I'd rather have Lohse back than Carlos "Pyrite" Silva.
    Agreed.

    At least we know what we're getting with Lohse, and we could reasonably estimate the price.

    With Silva, we have no idea what we're getting, while we know the cost will be astronomical.

    Silva, IMO would be a Milton-esque signing due to lack of production based on salary.

    Unfortunately, Lohse will also be expensive in this market, and the only reason I'd want him back in the rotation is so that Homer Bailey could have the luxury to be the #5 and learn on the job. If Bailey's in a role other than #5, then I don't think it's an unreasonable thought to feel that he'll have unfair expectations placed on him.

    We wouldn't make the playoffs with a rotation of Harang/Arroyo/Lohse/Belisle/Bailey, but at least it would help Bailey's development rather than expecting/wishing he'd produce at a level of anything other than a #5, which realistically in 2008, he won't.

  6. #20
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    I have no idea...but if it's going to happen, this would be the year.

    Krivsky, for the first time that I recall, has said publically that they're looking for another starter, and he's well aware in order to get one, you have to give up something....they have some chips now

    It's the most open I've ever heard him...why would he start being that way now?
    Just a couple of thougts here:

    WK may want it to be known that he wants to be called in on any bidding war for a top starter. WK has a significant edge in terms of young chips. In fact, am shocked that teams took the stuff they took for pitchingso far. t is my humble opinion that the Reds ould have and would have topped anythig yet given.....The Matt Garza deal was shocking, really shockng to me. Would ou rather have Young or Hamilton....come on....

    MLB should be totally disgusted and ashamed of the news coming out on the Santana thing.....it is lik there are two real ML teams. If it weren't for the silly 100year old law, I would think that every other ML team could win an anti-trust suit against NY and Boston.

    If I were a season tiket holder, I would consider a law suit.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  7. #21
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Why is Hamilton suddenly NOT a good defensiv CF? I thought he was terriic and I also thougt, last year, that he wa thought of tat way....a real 5 tool guy.

    Ad if I was wrong, I thought Jay Bruce was supposed to be a top notch defensive CF. Why o the Reds need to look for some defensive, no bat guy?
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  8. #22
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la View Post
    Why is Hamilton suddenly NOT a good defensiv CF? I thought he was terriic and I also thougt, last year, that he wa thought of tat way....a real 5 tool guy.

    Ad if I was wrong, I thought Jay Bruce was supposed to be a top notch defensive CF. Why o the Reds need to look for some defensive, no bat guy?
    Hamilton is serviceable in CF, but he's probably slightly above-average defensively, at best. You put him in RF, and he's a top tier defender.

    Jay Bruce, unfortunately isn't a true CF. He can play CF, and would be a better defender than Hamilton, but Jay Bruce is a corner OF.

    The Reds have a legitimate defensive CF in Chris Dickerson. Unfortunately, he has no bat. The Reds have an even better defensive CF in Drew Stubbs, but Juan Castro may very well be a better hitter than Drew Stubbs. The Reds had an everyday CF, but my guess is he'll be playing CF everyday for the A's in 2008.

  9. #23
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    My gut says AA OF Sean Henry and RHRP Carlos Guevara to Pittsburgh for Matt Morris. Just a gut instinct but that is what I see happening. I ain't claming it's the right thing to do but it wouldn't shock me at all. And then Jerry Gil would likely be DFA to make room for Morris.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  10. #24
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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  11. #25
    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8 View Post
    True...But George Grande did sit down next to me last year...
    Did you greet him with a hearty "Hi, Hello and Welcome!"
    0 Value Over Replacement Poster


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  12. #26
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by BoydsOfSummer View Post
    Did you greet him with a hearty "Hi, Hello and Welcome!"
    And how about "George is that Billy Beane over there...what's his story"?

    or (At the Hotel Salad Bar)

    (Jim Edmonds drops a grape, and happens to snatch it before it hits the ground).........and you know the rest
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  13. #27
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Hamilton is serviceable in CF, but he's probably slightly above-average defensively, at best. You put him in RF, and he's a top tier defender.

    Jay Bruce, unfortunately isn't a true CF. He can play CF, and would be a better defender than Hamilton, but Jay Bruce is a corner OF.

    The Reds have a legitimate defensive CF in Chris Dickerson. Unfortunately, he has no bat. The Reds have an even better defensive CF in Drew Stubbs, but Juan Castro may very well be a better hitter than Drew Stubbs. The Reds had an everyday CF, but my guess is he'll be playing CF everyday for the A's in 2008.
    Actually, Bruce has been a better CF than a RF so far and while his legs are young he projects to fine out there. Now when he hits 26 or 27 and his body thickens a bit, he'll probably need to move, but there really isn't an immediate crisis in CF. Even Freel is serviceable. Compare him to some of the guys passing for CF around the big leagues last season. Juan Pierre? Johnny Damon? Jacques Jones? Melky Cabrera? I'm not a big Freel fan either and ideally Bruce plays CF with Dunn and Hamilton in LF and RF. Griffey's presence means either Hamilton sits or Bruce stays in AAA. The problem with Freel is more that he's a less than optimal use of resources than that he's terrible player. There are quite a few CF around baseball that are worse then he is. I'd deal him for a decent prospect or bullpen arm, but I wouldn't just write him off or give him away. I'm guessing you can't get what it would take to deal him right now and he's a guy better marketed in Spring when teams realize the young guys they are hoping for aren't ready and Freel has had a chance to show that he's still in one piece.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #28
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Well, I am not sure what the pundits would say, but IMHO, Freel is a disaster as a CF. He'll make an occassional diving catch, but he makes lots of bad plays....and he has a rainbow arm.

    Just from watching, I see Hamilton as far superior to Freel.....and just from watching, I think Hamilton is a fine CF. So, again, I don't know where this need for a true CF is coming from.

    And everybody seems to forget Norris Hopper.....the guy has hit over .330 in 400 some ML ab's....
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  15. #29
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Griffey's presence means either Hamilton sits or Bruce stays in AAA.
    Is what will happen...

  16. #30
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Is what will happen...
    It shouldn't.


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