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Thread: Reds at Winter Meetings

  1. #151
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    It's a real shame that Stubbs is such a bust.

    It would be easier to part with Bruce if that were the case.
    Or to move Stubbs.

    Of course if Drew Stubbs was Tim Lincecum, the Reds wouldn't even be barking up these trees. They'd be after a young catcher, a quality setup man and some less expensive rotation depth.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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  3. #152
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    According to the ESPN Blog, the Mets have offered Aaron Heilman, Carlos Gomez and Philip Humber for Bedard. Seems to me that an offer of Votto, Cueto and Maloney would trump that any day.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  4. #153
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I don't even know what to say at this point....
    Well we know it isn't going to be that Drew Stubbs has been a disappointment so far.

    What's his OPSWH anyway?

    (OPS When healthy)
    Last edited by pedro; 12-04-2007 at 09:30 PM.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  5. #154
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Well we know it isn't going to be that Drew Stubbs has been a disappointment so far.

    What's OPSWH anyway?

    (OPS When healthy)
    Well, we've already seen Homer Bailey's 2007 WH stats tossed around as the crystal ball for his 2008 performance, so that seems par for the course.

  6. #155
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Stubbs may becoming less of a disappointment but he's not there yet. Take more than half a good season to convince me. It's not that he's such a bad prospect but like Meserasco, he's a first round pick who could have been a top young arm instead. He's also a first round pick that hasn't produced like a first round pick so far. In that respect, yes he's a bust.

  7. #156
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    There's all sorts of good with a few nagging annoyances with having a "Big Four" like the Reds have.

    The good is all self-explanatory so there's no need to dive into that.

    Unfortunately, the nagging annoyances is when you have a group of players like that, they're the guys everybody else always wants when you ask about one of their players. I imagine it isn't easy to get another team's GM to stop being fixated on one of the Big Four even when a combo of second tier prospects isn't too shabby of a package.

    All that said - and while having no idea what the financial books for the Reds looks like (i.e. could they actually ink Santana to a long-term deal semi-easily and we don't know this?) - it'd be darn near impossible for me to pull a trigger on any deal that sends Jay Bruce out of town. That dude is just too much of a complete all around player who does everything well and can play a pretty good center field; I don't buy the notion that he has to move over to right field.

    The others ... let's talk.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

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  8. #157
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I don't even know what to say at this point....
    Sorry Doug. I should have thought about your feelings before I posted that.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  9. #158
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    OK, well here's another one for you. If you could get TWO of Haren, Bedard or Santana, would you give up ALL of the "Fab Four"?
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  10. #159
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    OK, well here's another one for you. If you could get TWO of Haren, Bedard or Santana, would you give up ALL of the "Fab Four"?
    That's a rhetorical question, right?

    If (and that's the biggest if quite possibly ever) you could get Santana and Haren by giving up Bruce, Votto, Cueto and Bailey you do it. And you don't even flinch.

  11. #160
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    OK, well here's another one for you. If you could get TWO of Haren, Bedard or Santana, would you give up ALL of the "Fab Four"?
    Yes without question, and then I'd follow that up by ensuring that Dunn is extended long enough through whatever window of winning opportunity is born out of that hypothetical.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  12. #161
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I disagree with that. Yes, Harang has much more durability than Bedard... but if Bedard can put it all together for a full season, he is lights-out dominant in a way that Harang has never been. I'm talking Santana-level dominant (which is what Bedard was until he got injured at the end of last season).

    Then when Bedard puts it together for a full season, he can be considered better.Until then....

    I tell you one thing.

    If we offered Harang for Bedard, the O's would jump all over that.

    4 years of Harang> 2 years of Bedard

  13. #162
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Then when Bedard puts it together for a full season, he can be considered better.Until then....
    Or when Harang is Santana-level dominant he can be considered better.

    Why would the O's trade Erik Bedard for Aaron Harang?

    So they can get 5 more starts out of a guy who allows a half run or more per 9 innings?

    What part of 220 Ks in 190 innings is losing everyone?
    Last edited by Dom Heffner; 12-04-2007 at 10:05 PM.

  14. #163
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    I don't even mess with these is Harang or Bedard better or is Haren better than Harang arguments. Just give me Harang and either one of them and I'll call 'em even. They can take turns being 1 and 2. They can be co-captains. Let me keep either Bailey or Cueto, too, I'm not selfish. I'll let you have one or the other for a Bedard or Haren to compete with Harang for "Best Reds Pitcher". Follow with Arroyo, Bailey/Cueto and Belisle and Maloney and I don't care who is besat. All I know is I have a 1-2 punch, a good as anyone's #3, a lights out prospect who can learn without pressure in the backend, and
    a veteran who is already a good 5th man with another young pitcher who looks to have a 3-4 ceiling in the breach. Now that's a complete rotation. And I'll let you win the argument. Either one you'd like is best. It's fine by me.

  15. #164
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I don't even mess with these is Harang or Bedard better or is Haren better than Harang arguments. Just give me Harang and either one of them and I'll call 'em even. They can take turns being 1 and 2. They can be co-captains. Let me keep either Bailey or Cueto, too, I'm not selfish. I'll let you have one or the other for a Bedard or Haren to compete with Harang for "Best Reds Pitcher". Follow with Arroyo, Bailey/Cueto and Belisle and Maloney and I don't care who is besat. All I know is I have a 1-2 punch, a good as anyone's #3, a lights out prospect who can learn without pressure in the backend, and
    a veteran who is already a good 5th man with another young pitcher who looks to have a 3-4 ceiling in the breach. Now that's a complete rotation. And I'll let you win the argument. Either one you'd like is best. It's fine by me.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  16. #165
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la View Post
    If anybody in this franchise cannot see the forest here, I would fire them on the spot. The last 3 years or so have been leading up to this point.....you might even say the last 10 years.

    1. You have a new ballpark where the honeymoon is near an end. People are no longer buying tickets just to live the experience.

    2. You have a new GM that has been here long enough to know the franchise and to put somewhat of his stamp on it. He is right now in the midst of HIS honeymoon with the fans.

    3. You have 5 or 6 pretty fine young players that form a decent base. You have two veterans that are both probably gone after this year.

    4. You got a fairly coveted player in Hamilton that basically fell from the sky......but his future has a few questions to it....even so, lots of other teams are excited about the upside.

    5. You have two established pitchers who again, pretty much fell from the sky.....who are signed at a bargain through 2010.

    6. You just signed an expensive, potentially shut down closer.

    7. You have another guy in Jared Burton who again fell from out of nowhere into your lap.

    All you really need for a chance, right now, to return the excitement to GAB is one more great starting pitcher. You have the chips to go get him and an owner who even seems open to exteding him......so if you are WK and staff, and you screw this up and sit on your hands because you are afraid to part with a couple of prospects......heaven help you.
    Good post, and I agree. And I think this is what they're trying to do...at least I hope so. If they can land one of these pitchers, they're not going to have to sell the farm totally and they are all of a sudden contenders instead of pretenders.


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