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Thread: Reds at Winter Meetings

  1. #31
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    It shouldn't.
    It will, until someone gets hurt and Bruce will come up.
    Go Gators!

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  3. #32
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    It will, until someone gets hurt and Bruce will come up.
    Again, it shouldn't

    It's Krivsky's job to try and make sure Dusty doesn't have to have it that way.

    Time will tell!

  4. #33
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    I agree...it shouldn't, but it will. The only way it won't is if Hamilton is moved in the offseason.

  5. #34
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Jay Bruce NEEDS to spend some more time in Triple-A though.

    He's played a total of 66 games in AA and AAA with a 23/68 BB/K rate in 253 at-bats. For his minor-league career, it's 113/294 in 1,157 at-bats.

    The kid is talented, I won't debate that. But I would be cautious about giving him a starting job right away and anointing him as a sure thing based on some of those numbers.

  6. #35
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    corkedbat: very thoughtful post. I agree with just about all of it. I think we can use your list as a guide to some of the best pitching that could possibly be available.

    FWIW, I really expect fireworks from the Reds this off-season. I think the days of trades for left over guys is over. I saw Castellini on one of the interviews during the latter part of the season and he seemed upset and really unhappy with the state of things.

    Not saying the deals will be one-sided for the Reds. My guess is that a couple of very good young players/prospects will go. But I'd be surprised if there isn't another major move or two.

  7. #36
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    My gut says AA OF Sean Henry and RHRP Carlos Guevara to Pittsburgh for Matt Morris. Just a gut instinct but that is what I see happening. I ain't claming it's the right thing to do but it wouldn't shock me at all. And then Jerry Gil would likely be DFA to make room for Morris.
    I could see this happening too, and it scares the hell out of me.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  8. #37
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la View Post
    Well, I am not sure what the pundits would say, but IMHO, Freel is a disaster as a CF. He'll make an occassional diving catch, but he makes lots of bad plays....and he has a rainbow arm.

    Just from watching, I see Hamilton as far superior to Freel.....and just from watching, I think Hamilton is a fine CF. So, again, I don't know where this need for a true CF is coming from.

    And everybody seems to forget Norris Hopper.....the guy has hit over .330 in 400 some ML ab's....
    I don't think they necessairily need a CF as the OF now stands, but I think the chances are at least 50/50 or better that one of the big four OFs are not there come the start of ST.

    Let's say they move Hamilton for pitching or they decide that they are not going to re-sign Dunn after 08 and they get a good deal for AD.

    That leaves you with Dunn/Hamilton, Bruce and Griffey and it's very likely Junior won't be back in 09. If you could add CF like Coco Crisp (just using his name as an example) without including one of our top prospects, I think you should do it. (I also think you should move Junior for something instead of waiting until decision time on his huge option after next year too).

    Yes, Hamilton and Bruce can give you an adequate performance in CF, but both could also give you a very strong defender in either corner too. An OF of Bruce-Crisp-Hamilton (or Hamilton-Crisp-Bruce) would give you a defensive OF as strong as any in baseball if you deicde to move Dunn and not too shabby on offense either. If Hamilton is dealt and Dunn stays in left it lends even more value to having a ballhawk like Crisp in Center. It also makes any pitching you add even stronger by upgrading the defense.

    I believe that the main value of a good GM is looking at a roster dynamically, not just how the roster looks now or even how it might look if I trade this player for that player, but how it might look three or four moves down the line.

    Maybe it's a reliever and a couple of propsects for Coco Crisp, maybe its Griffey for a young CF with leadoff portential or maybe even Junior for a young SS and then Gonzalez (+) for a young CF.

    My point is, that WK might be able to add a league-average #4 pitcher for Freel, Hatteburg and Coffee and be done with it (and I think you could make a convincing arguemnt for doing just that).

    I think you can make just as convincing an argument for making a series of 3 to 5 deals to strengthen this team even further.

    A CF might not be a huge need now, but with the right series of moves, a top defensive CF might fit in quite nicely.

    It may not happen, but discussing all the options is what the Hot Stove League is all about isn't it?
    Last edited by corkedbat; 12-01-2007 at 07:00 PM.

  9. #38
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    I don't think they necessairily need a CF as the OF now stands, but I think the chances are at least 50/50 or better that one of the big four OFs are not there come the start of ST.

    Let's say they move Hamilton for pitching or they decide that they are not going to re-sign Dunn after 08 and they get a good deal for AD.

    That leaves you with Dunn/Hamilton, Bruce and Griffey and it's very likely Junior won't be back in 09. If you could add CF like Coco Crisp (just using his name as an example) without including one of our top prospects, I think you should do it. (I also think you should move Junior for something instead of waiting until decision time on his huge option after next year too).

    Yes, Hamilton and Bruce can give you an adequate performance in CF, but both could also give you a very strong defender in either corner too. An OF of Bruce-Crisp-Hamilton (or Hamilton-Crisp-Bruce) would give you a defensive OF as strong as any in baseball if you deicde to move Dunn and not too shabby on offense either.

    A CF might not be a huge need now, but with the right series of moves, a top defensive CF might fit in quite nicely.

    It may not happen, but discussing all the options is what the Hot Stove League is all about isn't it?
    If the Reds deal Hamilton for pitching, one of the reasons could be a feeling that they need a top defensive presence in center. So, for next year, you have Dunn, Griffey and good defense in center (new guy, say Crisp, backed by Hopper). And then, by the end of next year, it's Dunn, say Crisp, and Bruce.

    This is particularly true if they plan to sign Dunn long-term as the left fielder. With Dunn in left, the team could decide that they need a centerfielder who covers lots of ground. If the Reds replace Dunn with a better fielder, the need in center may be reduced.

    Guys like Hamilton and, I have read, Bruce are viewed as excellent right fielders who can slide over and play center adequately. I think the Reds may want more defensively in center. Drew Stubbs could eventually move in there, if his bat is adequate.

    If Hammy goes for pitching, the Reds don't have to find a centerfielder immediately. They could go with a Hopper/Dickerson or Hopper/Freel combo out there for a year. Hopper as a table setter is ok with me for awhile -- if the team dramatically improves pitching by trading a current outfielder.
    Last edited by Kc61; 12-02-2007 at 07:40 AM.

  10. #39
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    Again, it shouldn't

    It's Krivsky's job to try and make sure Dusty doesn't have to have it that way.

    Time will tell!
    Matt, you're making the assumption that Bruce starting at AAA will be Dusty's doing. If Krivsky has shown us anything it's that he values each level of the minor league system. Yes, I know that Bruce played 50 games at AAA last year.

    I also believe that Krivsky, at this point, won't be rushed in to making a trade unless it benefits us. Which is why we didn't see Dunn moved last year. In my opinion, I think he knows he has a number of plums and expects top dollar if we trade any of them.

    I don't believe there will be any harm in Bruce starting out in Louisville. It will not stunt his development and if it ultimately allows for a better trade since we won't have to rush in to something, then I think there's no harm in it.
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  11. #40
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la View Post
    Well, I am not sure what the pundits would say, but IMHO, Freel is a disaster as a CF. He'll make an occassional diving catch, but he makes lots of bad plays....and he has a rainbow arm.

    Just from watching, I see Hamilton as far superior to Freel.....and just from watching, I think Hamilton is a fine CF. So, again, I don't know where this need for a true CF is coming from.

    And everybody seems to forget Norris Hopper.....the guy has hit over .330 in 400 some ML ab's....
    Norris Hopper is at best a 4th OF. That's all we need to remember about him.

  12. #41
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    For some reason, I found C. Trent's latest update to be hilarious ...

    NASHVILLE -- Yep, I'm in Nashville and about to file my story and then go pick up Lancaster at the airport.

    I know you guys are excited and expecting a lot from the Winter Meetings, but I hate to break it to you, it's the most boring event around. More important than my computer for this trip is a good, comfortable pair of shoes. Seriously. We stand around a lot and talk to other writers. Then once a day, we go upstairs to Krivsky's room and he tells us nothing for a half-hour.

    Hopefully there will be something to announce, but we'll see. I expect the Reds to add a starter before Christmas, but not so sure if it'll be (announced) this week.
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  13. #42
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Awesome
    Go Gators!

  14. #43
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Trent's talking to all these other reporters to see if there's a job out there for him when the Post ceases publication within the next few weeks.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  15. #44
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Norris Hopper is at best a 4th OF. That's all we need to remember about him.

    Hopper... .332 .379 .396 OPS... .775
    Denorfia.....278 .358 .382 OPS... .740
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  16. #45
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    Re: Reds at Winter Meetings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Hopper... .332 .379 .396 OPS... .775
    Denorfia.....278 .358 .382 OPS... .740

    Yes, he does compare quite favorably to another 4th/5th OFer type.


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