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Thread: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

  1. #16
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    C Trent -

    On a conference call with Barry Larkin right now. He said he's talked to Bob Castellini and others that he wans to return to the Reds at some point. I'll have more later.
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  3. #17
    Baseball card addict MrCinatit's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    C Trent -
    That would be sweet!
    Even thinking of Larkin in the same office as Leatherpants causes me pain.

  4. #18
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    He's those team's Harry Craft, and IIRC Harry is also in the Reds HOF
    Well, fair enough then.

    It's not so much that I am anti-Geronimo, because I love the Chief. Lots of great memories..the guy had a howitzer of an arm.

    (Maybe I'm just sour that Kenny Anderson didn't even make the finals on the NFL HoF vote...most under-rated QB in history.)

  5. #19
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    I guess the plan is to put every BRM member in, and Joey Jay? was he REALLY popular or something?

    Larkin is a no brainer
    Jay won 21 games on the 1961 pennant winners and 21 again in 1962. After that, not so much. Hardly seems like Hall of Fame credentials.

    Geronimo? Not sure on that one either. Patroled center with the best of them with an outstanding arm. Hitting was not stellar for his career.
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  6. #20
    Duranie Ho, Ho, Ho! KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    I think so.
    Maybe not... per Reds website:

    Geronimo and Jay are slated to be at Redsfest this weekend to be honored. Larkin will be headed to Asia to do work for MLB International. Formal Hall of Fame enshrinement ceremonies for the four Reds is scheduled for July 19 at Great American Ball Park.
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  7. #21
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    12/05/2007

    Larkin elected to Reds Hall of Fame
    Former Reds great one of four to be immortalized by club
    By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

    Barry Larkin is second all-time in Reds history in hits (2340) and stolen bases (379).

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- There is no debate and never has been. Barry Larkin is one of the best Reds players to ever wear the wishbone 'C' on his cap.
    That fact is now one of historical document. On Wednesday, Larkin was one of four to be named to the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame. The former shortstop will be inducted along with outfielder Cesar Geronimo, pitcher Joey Jay and front office executive Garry Herrmann.

    Larkin was selected by fans vote while the other three were elected by the veterans committee. He received 16,386 of the 25,269 fan votes tabulated in August at Great American Ball Park, the Reds Hall of Fame and Museum and online at reds.com.

    "It felt really good. I'm honored and humbled -- all at the same time," Larkin said from his home in Florida.

    A native of Cincinnati and a Reds player for his entire 19-year career, from 1986-2004, Larkin had a lifetime average of .295 with 198 home runs, 960 RBIs and 379 stolen bases. He was a 12-time All-Star, a three-time Gold Glove winner and the 1995 National League Most Valuable Player. He was a main cog in the team's last World Series championship in 1990.

    In 1996, Larkin became the first shortstop in Major League history to be a 30-30 player, when he had 33 homers and 36 steals during that season. He was rated by baseball historian Bill James as one of the "10 most complete players in history" and the sixth-greatest shortstop ever. In 1997, Larkin was named the team's captain, a position he held until retirement.

    "The Reds are the oldest and most storied franchise," Larkin said. "Being a part of that, having a chance to play there, growing up as a Reds fan in Cincinnati and living my childhood dream -- it all comes into play. I told players all the time that I'm living a dream. And it just continues. It was a great ride."

    As Larkin emerged in the late '80s, he helped evolve the perception of a shortstop. Once a spot often reserved for light hitters with great fielding skills, Larkin was an uncommon offensive threat when he broke in. Now the game is filled with similar types of players like Derek Jeter and Miguel Tejada.

    "Guys before me played well offensively and defensively -- like Davey Concepcion and Garry Templeton -- they were guys I fashioned my game after," Larkin said. "I see myself as a guy that much like Davey and Garry, who never got much recognition. I got more recognized as an offensive threat and multi-dynamic player by hitting home runs and for average and stealing bases while playing good defense. I see myself as a trailblazer. It's expected now that if you play shortstop in the big leagues, you have to do well in both sides of the game."

    Larkin isn't eligible for the National Baseball Hall of Fame ballot until 2010.

    Geronimo, 59, spent nine seasons with Cincinnati from 1972-1980. The center fielder from the famed "Big Red Machine" teams, he is the seventh member of that illustrious lineup to be inducted into the team's Hall of Fame.

    Originally a member of the Astros when he broke into the Majors in 1969, Geronimo was part of a seven-player trade to the Reds on Nov. 29, 1971, that also brought Joe Morgan to Cincinnati. While with the Reds, Geronimo batted .261 and won four consecutive NL Gold Gloves from 1974-77.

    Jay spent six seasons with the Reds from 1961-66 and was 75-63 with a 3.80 ERA in 186 games, including 150 starter. His first two seasons with Cincinnati were his best. A 21-game winner both years, he is one of just five Reds pitchers since 1900 to win at least 20 games in consecutive seasons.

    Now 72 and a retired businessman living in Tampa, Fla., Jay never expected to be contacted by the Reds.

    "It was a big surprise and definitely a big honor," Jay said. "They have very illustrious alumni and it's very humbling to a part of it."

    Herrmann, a Cincinnati native, was the Reds' chief executive officer and general manager from 1902-27. He was in charge when the team won its first World Series in 1919 and spearheaded the construction of Redland Field, later known as Crosley Field, where the team played from 1912-1970.

    In 1903, Herrmann was chosen by baseball owners to be the president of the National Commission, baseball's governing body at the time, and held that title until 1920. In that capacity, he was instrumental in mediating a conflict between the American and National Leagues that led to the establishment of the modern World Series in 1905. The achievement that earned him the nickname "The Father of the World Series." Herrmann was 71 when he died in 1931.

    The largest and oldest continually operating team Hall of Fame in baseball with roots that date back 50 years, the Reds Hall of Fame now has 75 members, including 69 players, three managers and three executives.

    Geronimo and Jay are slated to be at Redsfest this weekend to be honored. Larkin will be headed to Asia to do work for MLB International. Formal Hall of Fame enshrinement ceremonies for the four Reds is scheduled for July 19 at Great American Ball Park.

    Larkin, 43, currently works in the Washington Nationals front office and has had no ties to the team he played for since retiring. A rift with members of Reds management -- many of whom have since departed -- has kept him away. Larkin had changed his mind about retiring near the end of the 2004 season, but was told by the team he wouldn't be brought back.

    "The way I left Cincinnati was one of the hardest things I had to do," Larkin said. "That was very emotional and a tough thing to leave Cincinnati. I thought I had time left but was shown the door. I really wanted to be there and continue to do my thing in Cincinnati."

    Reconciliation appears possible, however. Larkin plans on being at the ballpark for his enshrinement. During Ken Griffey Jr.'s recent charity golf tournament in Orlando, Larkin met members of the current Reds ownership regime, including the Castellini family.

    "I must say they're reaching out and it's very much appreciated," Larkin said. "The future of my reconnecting with the organization looks promising.
    http://mlb.mlb.com:80/news/article.j...=.jsp&c_id=mlb
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  8. #22
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    Jay won 21 games on the 1961 pennant winners and 21 again in 1962. After that, not so much. Hardly seems like Hall of Fame credentials.

    It's the Reds HOF. Bronson Arroyo will probably be in there after 2006 since the bar is so low for pitchers.
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  9. #23
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    I realize that, Chip, but those numbers are nothing to get excited about. Who is next? Jim Merritt?
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

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  10. #24
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Hopefully, now that Allen is gone, we can bring Larkin back.
    Nice that Cast and his guys reached out to Larkin.. even if Larkin doesn't come back, it was a classy thing for the new Reds to try to reconcile with Larkin.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  11. #25
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Seriously... the Jay thing bothers me.

    Perusing through my Reds Media Guide I came across Jays name about 3-4 times.

    THREE or FOUR Times... he won 21 games twice, leading the league both years and throwing 273 innings in 1962.

    The teams he won 21 games with were two of the best seasons for the Reds as a team, and Jay as well. However if you look at the pitching categories for the Reds in the modern era he only logs in one, (K/9) if you narrow it down to post WW2 he still only appears in the same category, and only one more (BB/K/9)

    If Joey Jay is a REDS HOF player then I seriously question the HOF standards.


    Code:
    JOEY JAY
    
    CINCINNATI REDS
    
    YEAR TEAM         AGE W   L   PCT   G    GS  CG  SV  GF  IP     H    R    ER   BB   SO    ERA  RSAA
    1961 Reds         25  21  10  .677   34  34  14   0   0  247    217  102   97   92  157   3.53   17 
    1962 Reds         26  21  14  .600   39  37  16   0   1  273    269  121  114  100  155   3.76    7 
    1963 Reds         27   7  18  .280   30  22   4   1   5  170    172   91   81   73  116   4.29  -16 
    1964 Reds         28  11  11  .500   34  23  10   2   7  183    167   75   69   36  134   3.39    4 
    1965 Reds         29   9   8  .529   37  24   4   1   8  156    150   83   73   63  102   4.21   -9 
    1966 Reds         30   6   2  .750   12  10   1   0   0   73.2   78   33   32   23   44   3.91    3 
         TOTALS           75  63  .543  186 150  49   4  21 1102.2 1053  505  466  387  708   3.80    6 
         LG AVERAGE       61  61  .500           41   5     1102.2 1072  520  455  370  697   3.71    0 
    
    YEAR TEAM          HR  H/9   BR/9  SO/9  BB/9  SO/BB SHO WP  IBB HBP BFP   BK  NW  NL
    1961 Reds          25  7.91 11.44  5.72  3.35  1.71   4   9   1   5  1032  0  18  13 
    1962 Reds          26  8.87 12.30  5.11  3.30  1.55   4   7   5   4  1165  2  18  17 
    1963 Reds          19  9.11 13.13  6.14  3.86  1.59   1   8   2   3   733  0  10  15 
    1964 Reds          17  8.21 10.13  6.59  1.77  3.72   0   3   6   3   737  0  12  10 
    1965 Reds          21  8.65 12.52  5.88  3.63  1.62   1   8   0   4   673  0   8   9 
    1966 Reds           8  9.53 12.71  5.38  2.81  1.91   1   3   1   3   313  0   4   4 
         TOTALS       116  8.59 11.93  5.78  3.16  1.83  11  38  15  22  4653  2  70  68 
         LG AVERAGE   105  8.75 11.99  5.69  3.02  1.88   8  39  41  27  4679  4
    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    CAREER
    MODERN (1900-)
    
    
    BASERUNNERS/9 IP              BR/9 IP   
    1    Fred Toney                10.18   
    2    Gary Nolan                10.31   
    3    Noodles Hahn              10.42   
    4    Bob Ewing                 10.65   
    5    Tom Seaver                10.65   
    6    Jose Rijo                 10.80   
    7    Mario Soto                10.82   
    8    Don Gullett               10.94   
    9    Red Lucas                 11.07   
    10   Bob Purkey                11.24   
    
    ERA                             ERA    
    1    Fred Toney                 2.18   
    2    Bob Ewing                  2.36   
    3    Noodles Hahn               2.49   
    4    Pete Schneider             2.61   
    5    Jose Rijo                  2.83   
    6    Bucky Walters              2.93   
    7    Gary Nolan                 3.01   
    8    George Suggs               3.03   
    9    Don Gullett                3.03   
    10   Dolf Luque                 3.09   
    
    RSAA                           RSAA    
    1    Dolf Luque                  182   
    2    Jose Rijo                   177   
    3    Eppa Rixey                  174   
    4    Bucky Walters               160   
    5    Noodles Hahn                147   
    6    Bob Ewing                   116   
    7    Jim Maloney                 115   
    8    Gary Nolan                  109   
    9    Paul Derringer              102   
    10   Ewell Blackwell              84   
    
    STRIKEOUTS/9 IP               SO/9 IP   
    1    Jim Maloney                7.88   
    2    Jose Rijo                  7.62   
    3    Mario Soto                 7.54   
    4    Tom Seaver                 6.06   
    5    Fred Norman                5.91   
    6    Don Gullett                5.89   
    7    Joey Jay                   5.78   
    8    Jim O'Toole                5.78   
    9    Ewell Blackwell            5.75   
    10   Gary Nolan                 5.62   
    
    STRIKEOUTS/WALKS               SO/BB   
    1    Jose Rijo                  2.76   
    2    Gary Nolan                 2.52   
    3    Noodles Hahn               2.46   
    4    Mario Soto                 2.21   
    5    Paul Derringer             2.16   
    6    Tom Seaver                 2.05   
    7    Jim Maloney                2.03   
    8    Tom Browning               1.97   
    9    Jim O'Toole                1.90   
    10   Don Gullett                1.89   
    
    WALKS/9 IP                    BB/9 IP   
    1    Red Lucas                  1.55   
    2    Noodles Hahn               1.65   
    3    Paul Derringer             1.69   
    4    Pete Donohue               1.75   
    5    Ken Raffensberger          1.84   
    6    Eppa Rixey                 1.88   
    7    George Suggs               1.91   
    8    Bob Purkey                 1.97   
    9    Benny Frey                 2.03   
    10   Ray Kolp                   2.14   
    
    WINNING PERCENTAGE              PCT    
    1    Don Gullett                .674   
    2    Jim Maloney                .623   
    3    Gary Nolan                 .621   
    4    Tom Seaver                 .620   
    5    Jose Rijo                  .614   
    6    Bucky Walters              .599   
    7    Tom Browning               .583   
    8    Jack Billingham            .580   
    9    Bob Purkey                 .575   
    10   Fred Norman                .570
    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    CAREER
    1946-2007
    
    
    BASERUNNERS/9 IP              BR/9 IP   
    1    Gary Nolan                10.31   
    2    Tom Seaver                10.65   
    3    Jose Rijo                 10.80   
    4    Mario Soto                10.82   
    5    Don Gullett               10.94   
    6    Bob Purkey                11.24   
    7    Jim Maloney               11.40   
    8    Ken Raffensberger         11.42   
    9    Tom Browning              11.57   
    10   Jim O'Toole               11.79   
    
    ERA                             ERA    
    1    Jose Rijo                  2.83   
    2    Gary Nolan                 3.01   
    3    Don Gullett                3.03   
    4    Jim Maloney                3.16   
    5    Tom Seaver                 3.18   
    6    Ewell Blackwell            3.31   
    7    Fred Norman                3.43   
    8    Mario Soto                 3.47   
    9    Bob Purkey                 3.49   
    10   Jim O'Toole                3.59   
    
    RSAA                           RSAA    
    1    Jose Rijo                   177   
    2    Jim Maloney                 115   
    3    Gary Nolan                  109   
    4    Ewell Blackwell              85   
    5    John Franco                  80   
    T6   Clay Carroll                 78   
    T6   Bob Purkey                   78   
    8    Ken Raffensberger            64   
    T9   Scott Williamson             61   
    T9   Tom Seaver                   61   
    
    STRIKEOUTS/9 IP               SO/9 IP   
    1    Jim Maloney                7.88   
    2    Jose Rijo                  7.62   
    3    Mario Soto                 7.54   
    4    Tom Seaver                 6.06   
    5    Fred Norman                5.91   
    6    Don Gullett                5.89   
    7    Joey Jay                   5.78   
    8    Jim O'Toole                5.78   
    9    Ewell Blackwell            5.76   
    10   Gary Nolan                 5.62   
    
    STRIKEOUTS/WALKS               SO/BB   
    1    Jose Rijo                  2.76   
    2    Gary Nolan                 2.52   
    3    Mario Soto                 2.21   
    4    Tom Seaver                 2.05   
    5    Jim Maloney                2.03   
    6    Tom Browning               1.97   
    7    Jim O'Toole                1.90   
    8    Don Gullett                1.89   
    9    Joe Nuxhall                1.84   
    10   Joey Jay                   1.83   
    
    WALKS/9 IP                    BB/9 IP   
    1    Ken Raffensberger          1.84   
    2    Bob Purkey                 1.97   
    3    Gary Nolan                 2.23   
    4    Tom Browning               2.38   
    5    Jose Rijo                  2.76   
    6    Joe Nuxhall                2.91   
    7    Jack Billingham            2.96   
    8    Tom Seaver                 2.96   
    9    Jim O'Toole                3.04   
    10   Don Gullett                3.12   
    
    WINNING PERCENTAGE              PCT    
    1    Don Gullett                .674   
    2    Jim Maloney                .623   
    3    Gary Nolan                 .621   
    4    Tom Seaver                 .620   
    5    Jose Rijo                  .614   
    6    Tom Browning               .583   
    7    Jack Billingham            .580   
    8    Bob Purkey                 .575   
    9    Fred Norman                .570   
    10   Joe Nuxhall                .544

  12. #26
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Seriously... the Jay thing bothers me.

    Perusing through my Reds Media Guide I came across Jays name about 3-4 times.

    THREE or FOUR Times... he won 21 games twice, leading the league both years and throwing 273 innings in 1962.

    The teams he won 21 games with were two of the best seasons for the Reds as a team, and Jay as well. However if you look at the pitching categories for the Reds in the modern era he only logs in one, (K/9) if you narrow it down to post WW2 he still only appears in the same category, and only one more (BB/K/9)

    If Joey Jay is a REDS HOF player then I seriously question the HOF standards.

    Like I said, the bar is pretty low. The vast majority of pitchers on those lists are in the Reds HOF. Can't blame this one on the fans. The mediots were responsible for all the choices but Larkin. Joey must have been pretty nice to the writers. Plus it's the Reds HOF. Not exactly Valhalla.
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  13. #27
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Like I said, the bar is pretty low. The vast majority of pitchers on those lists are in the Reds HOF. Can't blame this one on the fans. The mediots were responsible for all the choices but Larkin. Joey must have been pretty nice to the writers. Plus it's the Reds HOF. Not exactly Valhalla.
    Of course it's not even Xanadu with Bruce Jenner if you let every player who had one or two good years in the door, who's next Hank Sauer? Paul O'Neil?

  14. #28
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Of course it's not even Xanadu with Bruce Jenner if you let every player who had one or two good years in the door, who's next Hank Sauer? Paul O'Neil?

    Don't bet against O'Neill getting in.
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  15. #29
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Don't bet against O'Neill getting in.
    3000 PA's and a .259/.336/.431/.767 as a Red vs the league
    .259/.325/.386/.712

    Magic!!!

  16. #30
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Larkin, Geronimo, Jay and Herrmann make Reds HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    3000 PA's and a .259/.336/.431/.767 as a Red vs the league
    .259/.325/.386/.712

    Magic!!!

    Semi-local boy with intensity to burn, very good defensive RFer, part of a Reds world championship team, kicked a ball into a teammate's glove, part of one of the worst trades in Reds history in which his popularity grew because of his successes with the Yankees. Good guy with the media. He's in. It's just a question whether it's by the writers or the fans.
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