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Thread: Coffey RE: His mechanics

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    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Todd Coffey was on the radio recently and said his high school coach and he were watching video of his 07 performances and noted that he was bending his back too much, and they believe they have the flaw corrected.

    The flaw was supposedly causing him to leave the pitches up more and getting less movement.

    Coffeybro, maybe you can shed some light on this for us?

    Additionally he's dropping his curve ball next season.

    Question, if a high school coach in NC can spot this in Todd, whats Pole doing?

    Secondly, if this is true, and I know projections in the offseason are worthless, but how much better would 06 Coffey look in this pen than the 07 version?

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Coffey had an odd year.

    He kept his K and BB rates similar to 2006, got more groundballs, and significantly less line drives. You would think that would have been a recipe for success compared to 2006 instead of the on field implosion we witnessed.

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    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    I'm not a pitching coach, but how does bending your back too much cause you to leave pitches up? It seems like not bending your back would have the effect.
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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Todd Coffey was on the radio recently and said his high school coach and he were watching video of his 07 performances and noted that he was bending his back too much, and they believe they have the flaw corrected.

    The flaw was supposedly causing him to leave the pitches up more and getting less movement.

    Coffeybro, maybe you can shed some light on this for us?

    Additionally he's dropping his curve ball next season.

    Question, if a high school coach in NC can spot this in Todd, whats Pole doing?

    Secondly, if this is true, and I know projections in the offseason are worthless, but how much better would 06 Coffey look in this pen than the 07 version?
    I wrote this up this morning on another forum, it's a bit of what he said on Alan Cutler the other morning. But let me add he is also hired a strength and conditioning trainer to help him get into better shape. Todd is a true pro, IMO. I kinda missed a couple bits because I heard it on Lance's show but this is what I got from it.

    Actually what he has thrown to this point is a FB, Slider, Curveball, Change. He was on Alan Cutler yesterday morning I believe it was. He discussed this issue because he said that next year he plans on dumping the curve. He said it was his "get-over pitch" but didn't feel he needs it being a relief pitcher. He also said that when the opposition would see that "hump" in the pitch they would sit back and wait on it and of course tattoo it. It was basically a pitch that in effect gave itself away because it looked to the batter so much different than his other pitches, and in turn if it didn't have the hump and didn't look a strike they could lay off.

    That was an issue because he wasn't attacking the hitter's, he was trying to be too fine and trying to paint the corners and such (which he stated wouldn't be the case next year, he plans to be more aggressive next yr). Well that leads to alot of hitter's counts and either he then tossed up that meatball curve (it was his "get-over" pitch) and it got hammered or he ended up walking a guy putting him further in the hole. We'll see how that works out for him. He also said that he p/u a flaw in his delivery watching video which was causing him to fly open a bit and therefore not be as accurate. It was just a very subtle arching of the back when he would be in the middle of his delivery. He stated that he saw it and then took the film to his H.S. coach (Yeah not Dick pole, his H.S. coach) which was then verified as they put up the film side by side of when he was doing things right.

    I like Todd and this proves he is a hard worker which is extremly important in this line of work. And if he is right about all these things and putting in all this work I look for him to get it back this next season.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 12-07-2007 at 03:03 PM.
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Question, if a high school coach in NC can spot this in Todd, whats Pole doing?
    Question, how many flaws that were thought to be "the flaw" have been corrected already?

    Question, how do we know if this flaw is the flaw?

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Coffey's "implosion" was almost entirely due to a ridiculously high 26.1% HR/FB and a BABIP nearly 100 points higher than his LD% suggests it should have been. The vast majority of pitchers hover in the 7-13% range for HR/FB. Given the number of innings he pitched, it's likely a combination of bad luck and gopherballitis (aka, leaving breaking pitches thigh high over the plate).

    I would go so far as to say that Todd Coffey wasn't a bad pitcher last year. It's just that really bad things happened when he was pitching. He's not a relief ace either, but I expect him to be Weathersesque in 2008.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Coffey's "implosion" was almost entirely due to a ridiculously high 26.1% HR/FB and a BABIP nearly 100 points higher than his LD% suggests it should have been. The vast majority of pitchers hover in the 7-13% range for HR/FB. Given the number of innings he pitched, it's likely a combination of bad luck and gopherballitis (aka, leaving breaking pitches thigh high over the plate).

    I would go so far as to say that Todd Coffey wasn't a bad pitcher last year. It's just that really bad things happened when he was pitching. He's not a relief ace either, but I expect him to be Weathersesque in 2008.
    Exactly. Good post. That's why I found it so odd. He just seemed to be completely snake bitten all season long. He's not a high leverage guy, but I'd give him a head's up on a middle relief role over the other candidates.

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Coffey's "implosion" was almost entirely due to a ridiculously high 26.1% HR/FB and a BABIP nearly 100 points higher than his LD% suggests it should have been. The vast majority of pitchers hover in the 7-13% range for HR/FB. Given the number of innings he pitched, it's likely a combination of bad luck and gopherballitis (aka, leaving breaking pitches thigh high over the plate).

    I would go so far as to say that Todd Coffey wasn't a bad pitcher last year. It's just that really bad things happened when he was pitching. He's not a relief ace either, but I expect him to be Weathersesque in 2008.
    The fact that when batters hit his pitches, they hit them incredibly hard actually lends credence to Coffey's claim that they were able to recognize his pitches. If a hitter knows what to expect, and can sit and wait for it, he'll crush it.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    The fact that when batters hit his pitches, they hit them incredibly hard actually lends credence to Coffey's claim that they were able to recognize his pitches. If a hitter knows what to expect, and can sit and wait for it, he'll crush it.
    The thing is, that's not true. His LD% was a very very low 15.7%. Flyballs and Grounders have an OPS under .500. Liners have an OPS over 1.600. He actually induced weaker contact than most pitchers in baseball.

    He just got insanely unlucky in regards to hits on non-HR balls in play and then served up a ton of homers. Both the amount of hits and the amount of homers should come down significantly in 2008 without him changing much at all.

    If he was tipping a certain pitch, or having trouble keeping a certain pitch down in the zone due to some mechanical flaw, that might explain the homers. But his LD% suggests that he was actually very good at inducing weak contact.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Actually I kind of explained it a bit different than he did at least on the "flaw". If you go to Lance's podcast/listen section you can hear him explain it himself. Go to the 12/6/07 Hour 2 on demand, click on the listen part of it, when you see the bar come up run it manually to about the halfway point and listen. It's right after Lance's conversation with Ryan Ernst on the Kentucky HSFB playoffs.

    http://wcky.com/cc-common/podcast.html
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    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    Question, how many flaws that were thought to be "the flaw" have been corrected already?

    Question, how do we know if this flaw is the flaw?
    Thats a valid rebuttal indeed. We've all seen, heard, and read things that claim a pitcher is all fixed after a bad or down season only to see them repeat or worse the bad or down season the next year.

    You absolutely root for a guy like Todd though both as a person and a player on your favorite team.

    I for one hope the flaw was the thing and he's closer to the 06 version.

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    It bothers me a little bit that Coffee's "get over" pitch was the curveball. He needs to be able to throw the fastball for a strike, and that really was his problem last season. He pitched behind all the time and seemed to have no idea where his fastball was going the majority of the time. It wasn't movement. It was that he could not locate. I saw a lot of hitters that were hammering the fastball, as well as the curve. I think he lost confidence early in the season and never got it back. He did not trust his "stuff" at all. I always felt that his problems were more mental than physical. Looked to me like he just didn't have any confidence that he could get people out with his pitches. The mental side can really overide the physical side.
    Last edited by RANDY IN INDY; 12-07-2007 at 03:31 PM.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    It bothers me a little bit that Coffee's "get over" pitch was the curveball. He needs to be able to throw the fastball for a strike, and that really was his problem last season. He pitched behind all the time and seemed to have no idea where his fastball was going the majority of the time. It wasn't movement. It was that he could not locate. I saw a lot of hitters that were hammering the fastball, as well as the curve. I think he lost confidence early in the season and never got it back. He did not trust his "stuff" at all. I always felt that his problems were more mental than physical. Looked to me like he just didn't have any confidence in his pitches.
    If there was some just really bad luck regarding weakly hit balls falling in (as the numbers suggest), I wonder what effect that had on his psyche. He never seemed like the most confident guy, so I could imagine a string of bad luck paired with a few hung curveballs damaging his trust of his stuff more than most.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    If there was some just really bad luck regarding weakly hit balls falling in (as the numbers suggest), I wonder what effect that had on his psyche. He never seemed like the most confident guy, so I could imagine a string of bad luck paired with a few hung curveballs damaging his trust of his stuff more than most.
    Very good points, and yes, it does affect your confidence. Coffey throws hard enough to be really effective. His ball is a little flat sometimes, but it has enough velocity to get by a lot of hitters. You've got to trust that you can get people out with your pitches, and the best ones never lose sight of that. When you start being timid, or worried that you are going to give up the farm, you will never be an effective pitcher, particularly at the big league level, where mistakes are hammered with regularity. You have to believe that you belong and can get anyone out.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

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    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Coffey RE: His mechanics

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I would go so far as to say that Todd Coffey wasn't a bad pitcher last year. It's just that really bad things happened when he was pitching.
    I understand what you're trying to get across here. And I very much hope Todd turns it around in 2008.

    But when I saw Coffey get blasted around the park on a fairly regular basis (up till Sept. that is), I would call that a bad pitcher.

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