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Thread: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

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    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds44 View Post
    C: Ross, Valentin
    1B: Votto, Hatteberg
    2B: Phillips, Keppinger
    SS: Gonzalez
    3B: Encarnacion, Freel
    LF: Dunn
    CF: Hamilton, Hopper
    RF: Griffey
    SP: Harang
    SP: Arroyo
    SP: Belisle
    SP: Bailey
    SP: Cueto/Maloney/Trade/Washed up free agent
    RP: Cordero
    RP: Weathers
    RP: Burton
    RP: Bray
    RP: Stanton
    RP: Salmon
    RP: Coffey (?)

    Also in the mix:
    UTIL: Jerry Gill
    IF: Juan Castro
    IF: Paul Janish
    OF: Chris Dickerson
    RP: Sergio Valenzuela
    RP: Gary Majewski
    RP: Marcus McBeth
    RP: Jon Coutlangus

    Needs:
    Starting Pitcher, Right Handed bat (and we need both badly)
    I like the thread topic... lets discuss
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

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    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    real quick thoughts...

    1) Griffey in RF hurts but is nearly untradeable at this time
    2) Dunn needs a LTC
    3) #5 pitcher needed badly (actually a #1 would be ideal but in reality it would be nearly impossible)
    4) Another POWER bullpen arm
    5) RH bat with a little pop preferably someone who could OPS around 850
    6) With the combo of Hamilton/Hopper/Freel I think our CF defense should not be as high of a priority as some have said in the past
    7) I would like to find a way to prevent Cueto from touching the 25 man until at least July...
    8) Pray Burton can continue his strong 2nd half from last year and Coffey can return to his '06 form
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    Here's My 25 Man for next season, from the players that we have right now.


    C: Ross, Valentin
    1B: Votto, Hatteberg
    2B: Phillips, Keppinger
    SS: Gonzalez
    3B: Encarnacion
    LF: Dunn
    CF: Hamilton, Hopper
    RF: Griffey, Bruce
    SP: Harang
    SP: Arroyo
    SP: Belisle
    SP: Bailey
    SP: Cueto
    RP: Cordero
    RP: Weathers
    RP: Burton
    RP: Bray
    RP: Salmon
    RP: Jon Coutlangus
    RP: Marcus McBeth


    Id like to add a 3/4 but not Wells, Leiber, or Brett Tomko. Id rather see Bailey and Cueto both in the starting rotation then one of those failures.

    Oh and i've thought about this for a little bit. Instead of going out and spending too much on a Starter or getting some retread, maybe what we should do is go out and make our bullpen REAL good to compensate. Middle Relievers are not near as expensive as quality starters and there are a couple of good ones still out their in free agency. If we added like Jeremy Affeldt and Eric Gagne to take the spots of Stanton and Coutlangus or McBeth, it would make our bullpen much stronger. That way we could have Cueto and Bailey be like 5-6 inning pitchers and then have the Pen come in and shut the door, instead of having a starter over extend and fizzle out. That way our deficiency in the Starting Pitcher department isn’t so glaring because the starters don’t need to be counted on to throw 7-8 Strong innings every time out.

    Just an alternative way of improving the team for what would probably be cheaper.
    Last edited by schmidty622; 12-07-2007 at 05:00 PM.

  5. #4
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    real quick thoughts...

    1) Griffey in RF hurts but is nearly untradeable at this time
    2) Dunn needs a LTC
    3) #5 pitcher needed badly (actually a #1 would be ideal but in reality it would be nearly impossible)
    4) Another POWER bullpen arm
    5) RH bat with a little pop preferably someone who could OPS around 850
    6) With the combo of Hamilton/Hopper/Freel I think our CF defense should not be as high of a priority as some have said in the past
    7) I would like to find a way to prevent Cueto from touching the 25 man until at least July...
    8) Pray Burton can continue his strong 2nd half from last year and Coffey can return to his '06 form
    The Reds already have a number 1 pitcher. What they need is a 2 or 3.
    Most Vottomatic Player

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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    Stanton will be on the roster next year unless he is traded. Valenzuela was a rule 5 pickup, so he might also be on the 25 man roster next year. Freel will be on the roster unless he is moved in a trade.

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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    6) With the combo of Hamilton/Hopper/Freel I think our CF defense should not be as high of a priority as some have said in the past
    CF isn't so much the problem, it's the corners that are killing the defense.

  8. #7
    part of BBN jmac's Avatar
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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Degenerate39 View Post
    The Reds already have a number 1 pitcher. What they need is a 2 or 3.
    Thank You !!

  9. #8
    got alil captain in u?
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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    i like where we stand granted we go out and get a pitcher. whether that is through a trade or we sign leiber. If we trade someone just make sure you don 't give up to much in the deal.

  10. #9
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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    Here is what the Reds look like right now:

    C: Ross, Valentin
    1B: Votto, Hatteberg
    2B: Phillips, Keppinger
    SS: Gonzalez, Castro
    3B: Encarnacion
    LF: Dunn
    CF: Hamilton, Hopper
    RF: Griffey, Freel
    SP: Harang
    SP: Arroyo
    SP: Belisle
    SP: Bailey
    SP: ? (Shearn)
    RP: Cordero
    RP: Weathers
    RP: Burton
    RP: Bray
    RP: Stanton
    RP: Jon Coutlangus
    RP: Majewski
    RP: Coffey
    RP: McBeth
    RP: Salmon

    This is not the 25 man roster, but just who is at each position who has some major league experience. There are some players who will have shots at some these jobs that are not on this list, and some of the players on this list will be gone by spring training.

    What this shows is that the Reds don't even have anyone outside of Shearn for the fifth spot in the rotation. Considering injuries, a team needs at least 7 or 8 solid starters on their 40 man roster to get them through the year.

    That is why is in imperative for the Reds to sign some major league arms to compete for the fifth spot, and to fill in for anyone getting injured from the top 4. This is even the case if they are able to get a solid #2 or 3 starter in a trade.

    Here is the list of free agents who can provide innings at the back of the rotation. I think that the Reds need to sign at least two, probably three of these":

    Clement/Colon/Fogg/Jennings/Kim/Lawrence/Lieber/R.Lopez/W.Miller/Ohka/Redman/Seo/Thomson/Tomko/Wells/Wright.

    I know most of these are off the junkpile, but the Reds really need arms, even if it is to just eat up innings so that they can take their time with Bailey and Cueto. It is a matter of creating depth, even it is weak depth, at a position where the Reds have no one right now.

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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    From how everyone is talking about Cueto i might be upset if he doesnt make the roster

  12. #11
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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    From how everyone is talking about Cueto i might be upset if he doesnt make the roster
    My opinion of Cueto is very high ! I would like to see a few more starts in Triple A though. Of course, if he is lights out in ST, who knows?

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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by rocko View Post
    My opinion of Cueto is very high ! I would like to see a few more starts in Triple A though. Of course, if he is lights out in ST, who knows?
    I dont know what the kid has to prove. Hes young and surely waiting a bit wouldnt hurt but hes been almost dominate at every level.

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    Member BigREDSfaninKY's Avatar
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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by schmidty622 View Post
    Here's My 25 Man for next season, from the players that we have right now.


    C: Ross, Valentin
    1B: Votto, Hatteberg
    2B: Phillips, Keppinger
    SS: Gonzalez
    3B: Encarnacion
    LF: Dunn
    CF: Hamilton, Hopper
    RF: Griffey, Bruce
    SP: Harang
    SP: Arroyo
    SP: Belisle
    SP: Bailey
    SP: Cueto
    RP: Cordero
    RP: Weathers
    RP: Burton
    RP: Bray
    RP: Salmon
    RP: Jon Coutlangus
    RP: Marcus McBeth

    No way Bruce is on the roster in a back up role.

  15. #14
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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    Quote Originally Posted by schmidty622 View Post
    Here's My 25 Man for next season, from the players that we have right now.


    C: Ross, Valentin
    1B: Votto, Hatteberg
    2B: Phillips, Keppinger
    SS: Gonzalez
    3B: Encarnacion
    LF: Dunn
    CF: Hamilton, Hopper
    RF: Griffey, Bruce
    SP: Harang
    SP: Arroyo
    SP: Belisle
    SP: Bailey
    SP: Cueto
    RP: Cordero
    RP: Weathers
    RP: Burton
    RP: Bray
    RP: Salmon
    RP: Jon Coutlangus
    RP: Marcus McBeth


    Id like to add a 3/4 but not Wells, Leiber, or Brett Tomko. Id rather see Bailey and Cueto both in the starting rotation then one of those failures.

    Oh and i've thought about this for a little bit. Instead of going out and spending too much on a Starter or getting some retread, maybe what we should do is go out and make our bullpen REAL good to compensate. Middle Relievers are not near as expensive as quality starters and there are a couple of good ones still out their in free agency. If we added like Jeremy Affeldt and Eric Gagne to take the spots of Stanton and Coutlangus or McBeth, it would make our bullpen much stronger. That way we could have Cueto and Bailey be like 5-6 inning pitchers and then have the Pen come in and shut the door, instead of having a starter over extend and fizzle out. That way our deficiency in the Starting Pitcher department isnít so glaring because the starters donít need to be counted on to throw 7-8 Strong innings every time out.

    Just an alternative way of improving the team for what would probably be cheaper.
    I don't think we can expect both Bailey and Cueto to be ready for next season. Therefore I think it's imperative we sign Lieber or someone like him to hold down the #4 starting pitching spot.

    Someone did mention bolstering the bullpen even more, which to me, isn't a bad idea if we cannot trade for starting pitching.
    Who's on first?

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    Re: where we stand post winter meetings... per ORG

    I think the idea of having pitchers "ready" for the major leagues is taken a little to far to the extreme. Cueto doesn’t really have anything more to prove in the minor leagues, and neither does Bailey. What they need now is major league experience. Sure they will take their lumps and bad games but what makes them good major league pitchers is how they respond from those kind of defeats.

    Nothing more is going to be learned about Cueto by having him start in AAA. He is either going to be a success in the majors or he wont. This is the year to find out, whether it be through the 5th spot in the rotation, or out of the bullpen.


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