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Thread: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

  1. #16
    Member corkedbat's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    We would lose a lot offensively in going from Hamilton to Cameron, but there is a lot of offense elsewhere and the improved defense and pitching would offset it somewhat. I could live with some combination of Bruce/Hopper/Freel/Dickerson for a month or so until the suspension is up.

    I'd go a year with a club option, hope for 2 good defensive/adequate offensive years and then hand the reigns over to Stubbs (who may well project to a player very similar to MC, BTW).

    The thing that bothers me most when I see guys like Cameron & Rijos being discussed is WK being tempted to deal Bruce for someone like Bedard AND Hamilton for another starter.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 12-08-2007 at 03:29 AM.

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  3. #17
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    We would lose a lot offensively in going from Hamilton to Cameron, but there is a lot of offense elsewhere and the improved defense and pitching would offset it somewhat. I could live with some combination of Bruce/Hopper/Freel/Dickerson for a month or so until the suspension is up.

    I'd go a year with a club option, hope for 2 good defensive/adequate offensive years and then hand the reigns over to Stubbs (who may well project to a player very similar to MC, BTW).

    The thing that bothers me most when I see guys like Cameron & Rijos being discussed is WK being tempted to deal Bruce for someone like Bedard AND Hamilton for another starter.
    Exactly. Trade youth for over the hill veterans regardless of how much we lust for the days before Griffey...

    You ust have to wonder how long a guy 35 can play at the level we want him to in CF. Oh yeah, wasn't that the gripe against Griffey?

  4. #18
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Mike Cameron will be 35 years old next season. He hit .242 last season and seems to be in decline. If it's a cheap acquisition, then OK, i'll go along with that, but the guy hasn't hit over .267 in a full season in his career. His OBP was .355 in 2006 and .328 last year and in his whole career he's never been higher than .365.

    As I've said before, he's more legend than results. Let him play out his career somewhere else. We have a center fielder who hit 2less home runs than Cameron in 60 less games and OBP'd 20 points higher (with a rousing 50+ points higher batting average--I know it means nothing), and is 9 years younger. And he gets paid peanuts. No thanks, now that I think about it regardless of how well he can catch a fly ball.
    Mike Cameron has always been legend? I think you are severely discounting his value when he was younger. Mike Cameron never been higher than .365 obp? Who cares? Mike Cameron in his prime at .365 is an all star and one of the most valuable players in the league.
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  5. #19
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Is Mike Cameron really better than Josh Hamilton would be in CF? I know there are concerns over JH's health and all, but really? Cameron better than Hamilton in CF right now?

  6. #20
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Is Mike Cameron really better than Josh Hamilton would be in CF? I know there are concerns over JH's health and all, but really? Cameron better than Hamilton in CF right now?
    Defensively? Yes and it's not even close.
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  7. #21
    Member corkedbat's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I think that is a when and not if.

    I would be shocked if they don't add two more starters to the mix by the start of ST. The question is what kind of starters do they add?

    Type A (Cream of the Crop):

    Bedard, Haren, Harden, Kazmir, Linecum, Burnett, etc.

    Experienced Top starters that would cost a lot of talent (and soon a lot of money except for Haren & Linecum)

    Type B (Young Vets):

    Blanton, Snell, Lee, Hill, Cain, Billingsley, Baker, Slowey, Garza or one of the other TB starters, Capuano, etc.

    Would cost less in talent and salary, but still fairly solid with some experience

    Type C (Prospects):

    Kershaw, Volquez, Kennedy, Horne, etc.

    Talented, but little experience

    Type D (2nd Tier FAs):

    Lieber, Colon, Clement, Tomko, Silva (too expensive)

    Question marks, but could be back of the rotation starters and they cost no talent

    It could be one from any two categories or two from the any one category, but I'm convinced they will add two starters.

  8. #22
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    If the Reds traded Josh Hamilton for Mike Cameron and an above-average pitcher, I could certainly live with that.

  9. #23
    Member corkedbat's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Exactly. Trade youth for over the hill veterans regardless of how much we lust for the days before Griffey...

    You ust have to wonder how long a guy 35 can play at the level we want him to in CF. Oh yeah, wasn't that the gripe against Griffey?
    Cameron is still in good shape and I see no reason why he can't give you a strong year in CF. After the first year I see whether I think it can be two - thus the club option for the second year vs. a straight 2yr. deal.

    If given the straight-up option of Josh & his defense or Cameron & his offense in CF I take Josh hands down. Josh or Cameron plus the pitcher Josh might bring and the call is a little closer. Factor in WK seemingly determined to deal Josh and the point may be moot.

    You could just replace Josh in CF with Bruce, but I seriously doubt that Junior is back in 09 & it wouldn't surprise me to see them moving him out and Jay into RF by the trade deadline this year.

  10. #24
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Cameron will miss the first 25 games of the season after testing positive for banned stimulants. The Padres reportedly tried to work out a two-year deal to keep Cameron in San Diego, but Cameron declined, and is looking for a multi-year contract. And since Cameron is a Type B free agent, the Padres will receive a compensatory selection in the 2008 First-Year Player Draft -- a pick between the first and second round -- if he signs elsewhere.
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  11. #25
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    We would lose a lot offensively in going from Hamilton to Cameron, but there is a lot of offense elsewhere and the improved defense and pitching would offset it somewhat. I could live with some combination of Bruce/Hopper/Freel/Dickerson for a month or so until the suspension is up.

    I'd go a year with a club option, hope for 2 good defensive/adequate offensive years and then hand the reigns over to Stubbs (who may well project to a player very similar to MC, BTW).

    The thing that bothers me most when I see guys like Cameron & Rijos being discussed is WK being tempted to deal Bruce for someone like Bedard AND Hamilton for another starter.
    Some things about the offense though:

    1. Cameron is a RH bat with good power but not great power.
    2. The Red's line-up leans heavily to the left.
    3. Good power produces a lot of fly outs in Petco park limiting a player's offensive production significantly (as it did in Seattle before that).
    4. Good power produces a lot of HR in GABP and could lead to quite an improvement accross the board in BA/OBP/SLG/OPS if some outs are turned into HR.

    In GABP the offensive difference between Hamilton and Cameron may not be as big as it appears right now and if Cameron can upgrade the defense in CF and Hamilton can bring back a guy who solidifies the rotation, this could be a great move. The addition of more RH power should help the Reds quite a bit as well.
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  12. #26
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Cameron will miss the first 25 games of the season after testing positive for banned stimulants. The Padres reportedly tried to work out a two-year deal to keep Cameron in San Diego, but Cameron declined, and is looking for a multi-year contract. And since Cameron is a Type B free agent, the Padres will receive a compensatory selection in the 2008 First-Year Player Draft -- a pick between the first and second round -- if he signs elsewhere.

    That's not a problem. By the time he's served hs suspension, Ryan Freel will be hurt.

    Seriously, I have misgivings about signing someone like Cameron. 1999 will be 9 years ago next year. Plus he'll be missing the first month of next season. I wouldn't say no but I have my doubts this would work.
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  13. #27
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    I would be shocked if they don't add two more starters to the mix by the start of ST. The question is what kind of starters do they add?

    Type A (Cream of the Crop):

    Bedard, Haren, Harden, Kazmir, Linecum, Burnett, etc.

    Experienced Top starters that would cost a lot of talent (and soon a lot of money except for Haren & Linecum)

    Type B (Young Vets):

    Blanton, Snell, Lee, Hill, Cain, Billingsley, Baker, Slowey, Garza or one of the other TB starters, Capuano, etc.

    Would cost less in talent and salary, but still fairly solid with some experience

    Type C (Prospects):

    Kershaw, Volquez, Kennedy, Horne, etc.

    Talented, but little experience

    Type D (2nd Tier FAs):

    Lieber, Colon, Clement, Tomko, Silva (too expensive)

    Question marks, but could be back of the rotation starters and they cost no talent

    It could be one from any two categories or two from the any one category, but I'm convinced they will add two starters.
    Personally, if Hamilton is involved, I'd be tempted to add some combination of Maloney, Stubbs, Keppinger, EdE, etc. and get either:

    Option 1: one from group A or
    Option 2: one of each from groups B and C.

    If the Reds go the group A route, they probably need to get a guy from group D as well but they need to be real careful there. IMO there is a world of difference between Leiber or Colon who I think could be assets and some one like Tomko who I wouldn't let take out my garbage. Since I want the team to build for the longer term as well as compete now, I'd probably go for option 2 but its probably harder to find a team that can give up 2 pitchers in those categories. The Twins can IMO. Hamilton and Keppinger might be a package that would fill two spots (CF and some where in the IF) for them and the Twins could probably afford to deal say a Scott Baker and a Glenn Perkins. They would be smart to fill their needs without dealing Santana. They could then focus on acquiring the best talent possible for Santana instead of taking lesser players (Melky for example) who simply fill a hole.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  14. #28
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    So we might be in the running for Cameron and Tomko? It's been over 8 years since they put on a Reds uniform. However I think I'd rather have Hamilton over Cameron. I can take Hamiltons 90-100+ games over the production of that of Mike Cameron. Now if Josh could land us a #2 starter much like Wily Mo did for us when acquiring Bronson Arroyo.. I'd be ok with signing Cameron to a one year deal with an option for 09 to allow Bruce to develop more in Louisville.

    Maybe a deal with Cleveland to acquire Cliff Lee, Jensen Lewis, and Andy Marte for Hamilton. Reds could bolster their bullpen, fill a #3 slot in their rotation and add depth at 3rd. I know many of you hate the idea of having Dontrelle Willis as a Red.. but I got to think if there was a deal for him on the table and it only would have cost Hamilton to get him.. I would do that trade with no hesitation.
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  15. #29
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post

    Seriously, I have misgivings about signing someone like Cameron. 1999 will be 9 years ago next year. Plus he'll be missing the first month of next season. I wouldn't say no but I have my doubts this would work.
    Agreed. I'm also concerned about Cameron's age. In the abstract, expecting a 35 year old centerfielder to provide plus defense at such a demanding position may not be realistic.

  16. #30
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    Re: Reds interested in Mike Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    If the Reds traded Josh Hamilton for Mike Cameron and an above-average pitcher, I could certainly live with that.
    I can't get over how undervalued Josh Hamilton is all of a sudden. If you trade him, you have to get a 1 or 2 starter -- not an "above-average pitcher."

    The truth is this team would be better off rebuilding this offense around Hamilton and Bruce and finding a new home for Junior. Use Homer/Cueto/Encarnacion/Votto to trade for a starter.


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