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Thread: If I were Wayne....

  1. #1
    Member dunner13's Avatar
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    If I were Wayne....

    First I would try to get Noah Lowry from the giants for EE. Thats a pretty fair trade and should be able to get done. I would love to have haren, bedard or linecum but the price is to steep.

    I would put keppinger at third, keep an outfield of dunn, hamilton, griffey. Start bruce out in AAA and realize that with the health concerns of hamilton and an aging griffey bruce will probably get called up at some point and get 150-300 at bats.

    I Start Votto at first and tell hatte that hes our number 1 pinch hitter.

    With a rotation of Harang whos an ace, Arroyo who even if he doesnt bounce back to his 06 form is still an above average pitcher, Lowry who is also slightly above average, then I have last years #1 pitching prospect Homer Bailey as my number 4. Homer may have struggled some last year but he had the injury and it was his first taste of the majors. I think this year he should be fully ready and have a very solid season. For sure better than the average #4 starter in baseball. For the #5 spot I let Cueto, Belisle, Maloney battle it out, If I have any doubts about Cueto being ready I start him out in AAA.

    This may not give us the biggest moves of the offseason but it helps us win this year without mortgaging the future. In 08 this should give us a shot at 85 wins which is good enough to battle it out for the division. In 09 Bruce takes over for griffey and we should be ready to start our dynasty.

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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    Yep...nothing like losing a right handed bat in this line-up for a scrub of an arm. Thank goodness you aren't Wayne.

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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    Quote Originally Posted by dunner13 View Post
    First I would try to get Noah Lowry from the giants for EE. Thats a pretty fair trade and should be able to get done. I would love to have haren, bedard or linecum but the price is to steep.
    I agree in principal, but not on Lowry. I agree that WK should be targetting good pitchers who aren't named Kazmir, Haren, or Bedard......that could possibly be gotten for less in return. While most of the other clubs are going for and possibly willing to sell the farm for one great pitcher.......I think there are good pitchers that we wouldn't have to sell the farm for.

    I would put keppinger at third, keep an outfield of dunn, hamilton, griffey. Start bruce out in AAA and realize that with the health concerns of hamilton and an aging griffey bruce will probably get called up at some point and get 150-300 at bats.
    I completely agree about Bruce starting out in AAA until one of the injury prone outfielders, namely Griffey and Hamilton, require Bruce to be up here. Although, there is still a chance one of our OFer's could be traded.

    I Start Votto at first and tell hatte that hes our number 1 pinch hitter.
    I would like to see Votto inserted at first base permanently unless he fails in the first 2 months. I don't really want to see a platoon situation there. But with Dusty's reputation of preferring veteran players, I doubt we'll see anything but a platoon.

    With a rotation of Harang whos an ace, Arroyo who even if he doesnt bounce back to his 06 form is still an above average pitcher, Lowry who is also slightly above average, then I have last years #1 pitching prospect Homer Bailey as my number 4. Homer may have struggled some last year but he had the injury and it was his first taste of the majors. I think this year he should be fully ready and have a very solid season. For sure better than the average #4 starter in baseball. For the #5 spot I let Cueto, Belisle, Maloney battle it out, If I have any doubts about Cueto being ready I start him out in AAA.
    I am not sold on Bailey like alot of other people. But I agree that there is more to adjust to in the major leagues than just pitching. It's a whole new world - bigger stadiums, more fans in the seats, sitting in dugouts and playing against big name players you've read about in newspapers and seen on ESPN, more money, etc......I think adjusting to the major leagues is probably a bit nerve-wracking for some. I think it will be interesting, now that he has gotten a taste of the big leagues, how Homer responds this ST.

    This may not give us the biggest moves of the offseason but it helps us win this year without mortgaging the future. In 08 this should give us a shot at 85 wins which is good enough to battle it out for the division. In 09 Bruce takes over for griffey and we should be ready to start our dynasty.
    I will be shocked if we don't trade for a starting pitcher AND sign a FA starting pitcher for the #4 or 5 slot.
    Who's on first?

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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    For the last time Lowry is terrible. Nothing about him is good.

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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    If I were Wayne...
    Bailey for Rios
    Freel & Stubbs package for Volquez
    Hamilton package for James Shields

    Harang
    Arroyo
    Shields
    Belisle
    Volquez/Cueto

    and Rios takes over CF and cleanup in the batting order

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    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    Quote Originally Posted by hippie07 View Post
    If I were Wayne...
    Bailey for Rios

    ...


    and Rios takes over CF and cleanup in the batting order
    Where did you get your Aqua Dots from? I thought they pulled those off of the shelves?
    Last edited by thatcoolguy_22; 12-08-2007 at 01:55 PM. Reason: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/08/toy.recall/
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    i dont know about anybody else but as of when edison volquez allowed the grand slam to kevin kouzmanoff for the first pitch in his first major league at bat, i more or less figured his future was pretty clearly set in stone. trading anything for him would be a complete waste, especially in home-run friendly great american ballpark.

    Pitching
    IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA
    2005 TEX 12.2 25 22 20 3 10 11 14.21 2.76 .403
    2006 TEX 33.1 52 28 27 7 17 15 7.29 2.07 .359
    2007 TEX 34.0 34 18 17 4 15 29 4.50 1.44 .262
    Career 80.0 111 68 64 14 42 55 7.20 1.91 .329


    14 homeruns in 80 innings pitched. matt belisle allowed 26 hr in 177 innings last year. even if that isnt ridiculious enough look at the amout of hits the guy allows. im sure everyone will point out how his stats are improving but face it. its clear more than ever the word "package" has become to cliche. people think acquiring dontrelle willis would of ruined the reds then they point out to trade for someone even worse believing it will help the team. come on face the facts and be realistic. now you want someone who can help the reds pitching wise id say rhp carlos carrasco on the phillies for edwin encarnacion and gary majeski/ marcus mcbeth. probably even all three. sure it would be overpaying but he is the type of player who could have an immediate impact. if i took it even swich eddie for hamilton. yeah he is that good.

    http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...pbp&pid=471911

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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    For the last time Lowry is terrible. Nothing about him is good.
    LMAO.

    Lowry '07 - 156 IP, 155 hits. 3.92 ERA (which would've been 2nd on the Reds, for a starter's ERA.)

    I wish the rest of the Reds staff was as terrible as Lowry, then.
    I hope it's never sunny in Philly again.

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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetsport06 View Post
    i dont know about anybody else but as of when edison volquez allowed the grand slam to kevin kouzmanoff for the first pitch in his first major league at bat, i more or less figured his future was pretty clearly set in stone. trading anything for him would be a complete waste, especially in home-run friendly great american ballpark.

    Pitching
    IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA
    2005 TEX 12.2 25 22 20 3 10 11 14.21 2.76 .403
    2006 TEX 33.1 52 28 27 7 17 15 7.29 2.07 .359
    2007 TEX 34.0 34 18 17 4 15 29 4.50 1.44 .262
    Career 80.0 111 68 64 14 42 55 7.20 1.91 .329


    14 homeruns in 80 innings pitched. matt belisle allowed 26 hr in 177 innings last year. even if that isnt ridiculious enough look at the amout of hits the guy allows. im sure everyone will point out how his stats are improving but face it. its clear more than ever the word "package" has become to cliche. people think acquiring dontrelle willis would of ruined the reds then they point out to trade for someone even worse believing it will help the team. come on face the facts and be realistic. now you want someone who can help the reds pitching wise id say rhp carlos carrasco on the phillies for edwin encarnacion and gary majeski/ marcus mcbeth. probably even all three. sure it would be overpaying but he is the type of player who could have an immediate impact. if i took it even swich eddie for hamilton. yeah he is that good.

    http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...pbp&pid=471911

    That's a small sample size, and his 2nd stint in the majors. A certain pitcher named Bailey didn't exactly shine in a similar amount of PT this year, either.

    Volquez has a good K rate, HR rate, and didn't allow too many hits in the minors. He didn't have a great BB rate, but he's still young, and those things can be corrected.

    This is exactly the type of player the Reds should be targeting.
    I hope it's never sunny in Philly again.

  11. #10
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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    Quote Originally Posted by TC81190 View Post
    LMAO.

    Lowry '07 - 156 IP, 155 hits. 3.92 ERA (which would've been 2nd on the Reds, for a starter's ERA.)

    I wish the rest of the Reds staff was as terrible as Lowry, then.
    do you know anything about the guy? He would get crushed in the Central.

    His K/BB ratio is terrible, his Whip is terrible, and hes a soft tosser. The NL west is a terrible hitting division full of pitchers parks. He would get crushed moving into the central.

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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    do you know anything about the guy? He would get crushed in the Central.

    His K/BB ratio is terrible, his Whip is terrible, and hes a soft tosser. The NL west is a terrible hitting division full of pitchers parks. He would get crushed moving into the central.

    WHIP is definitely not a good stat to measure a pitcher by, and yes he does have problems with allowing the BB, but so does an aforementioned Homer Bailey, who many of us here are pinning the hopes of this team having good pitching on for the next couple years.
    I hope it's never sunny in Philly again.

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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    Quote Originally Posted by TC81190 View Post
    WHIP is definitely not a good stat to measure a pitcher by, and yes he does have problems with allowing the BB, but so does an aforementioned Homer Bailey, who many of us here are pinning the hopes of this team having good pitching on for the next couple years.
    Homer bailey is 21 and can throw in the mid 90s atleast

    Noah Lowry hits 90 on good days and is 27

    and whip is a much better stat to judge a pitcher by than ERA in a bad hitting division with parks like what hte dodgers padres and giants all play in.

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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    Where did you get your Aqua Dots from? I thought they pulled those off of the shelves?
    Don't really know what you're implying here, but in my trade idea - the Reds would basically be exchanging:

    Hamilton for Rios
    Bailey for Shields
    and obtaining a good promising pitching prospect for spare parts (Rangers are interested in Hamilton and Freel and I don't see them being a good trading partner for Hamilton)

    Hamilton and Rios is basically a wash except that Rios is more proven and is a RH excellent hitter which the team desperately needs if they want to "win now".

    Bailey & Shields is a bit different .... Shields is a young SOLID #3 guy (Arroyo-esque but cheaper) and Bailey is a huge question mark w/ #1 potential, but potential that he may never reach. It may be that in a few years we'd rather have Bailey than Shields on the staff, but for next year.. I'd rather have the solid #3 than a question mark...... plus, some scouts value Cueto more than Bailey, so .... I think he's a prospect we can lose if it "upgrades the staff".

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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    I would not trade EE for Lowery, I would not mind trading him but I also am not in a hurry to trade him. I would hope to find a 5th starter and hope Cueto would be ready by the break. I would hang on to Hamilton unless I could get a front of the rotation starter. I think we will be ok with what we have, I wouldn't panic and mortgage my future to try to compete now unless it was just an overwhelming offer!!

    I am still high on Bailey! Higher on him than Cueto, think they are future 1 and 2 in the rotation.

    I think WK will make some move I just hope he does not pull a Lopez and Kearns type deal, still one of the worst moves imho that the Reds have made!

    I would also take a chance on Prior, give up a couple of prospects and hope he returns to form ala Carpenter. He is a winner and could be a major steal. I realize he could flop as well but you have to role the dice sometimes!!
    Last edited by Bigredfan#1; 12-08-2007 at 03:33 PM.

  16. #15
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: If I were Wayne....

    About Noah Lowry- Josh Hamilton for Ian Snell must not sound so bad to some of you now...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."


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