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Thread: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

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    Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    per yahoo sports and the new york times:


    Former player: 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Sunday, Dec 9, 2007 7:29 am EST

    Former big-leaguer Jack Armstrong, once an all-star game starter, told the New York Daily News that 20%-30% of the players in his era — 1988 through 1994 — were juicing in a big way. He believes that 60%-80% of players — many of them average or even borderline big-leaguers — were doing it in a subtler, maintenance kind of way, getting enough of an edge to keep the oversized paychecks coming.

    "It's time to call the rats out," Armstrong says. "The guys who did this are cheaters - and that's the bottom line. They are people who made tens of millions of dollars doing something they weren't supposed to do, at the expense of guys who were doing things the right way.

    "The biggest key to hitting is how long you can wait on the ball, and how fast you can move the bat through the zone. That's what made Bonds so great; he could wait longer than anyone, and then get his bat through the zone faster than anyone. Don't give me that crap that steroids don't help you hit a ball."

    Source: New York Daily News "

    Makes me wonder who on the Reds back then was??

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    Cruisin' for trouble
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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Dibble would be my first thought...and Braggs.

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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Eric Davis?
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Kevin Mitchell
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Andre the Giant?
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Jack Armstrong is just so full of credibility.

    IIRC, he once said he'd rather become a tuna fisherman than report to the minor leagues. Somebody should ask how the tuna fishing was in Nashville after the Reds sent him down, one year after his all-star game start.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

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    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Jack Armstrong is just so full of credibility.

    IIRC, he once said he'd rather become a tuna fisherman than report to the minor leagues. Somebody should ask how the tuna fishing was in Nashville after the Reds sent him down, one year after his all-star game start.
    Would you like some ad hominem with your tea?

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    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Jose Canseco had credibility issues too...just because Armstrong was a bit of a flake doesn't make the observations necessarily untrue.

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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Would you like some ad hominem with your tea?
    I know, I know. I don't hate the guy. He's just a tad prone to hyperbole
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

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    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    I know, I know. I don't hate the guy. He's just a tad prone to hyperbole
    And he was a bit of an eccentric. I once saw him in a leather pair of overalls with no shirt on underneath at Caddy's.

    I'm not a fan at all, but my belief is he is probably right, though a call to come clean is a helping full of wishful thinking.

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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    And he was a bit of an eccentric. I once saw him in a leather pair of overalls with no shirt on underneath at Caddy's.

    I'm not a fan at all, but my belief is he is probably right, though a call to come clean is a helping full of wishful thinking.
    Timely too.
    What Jack, no one has been around to hear about steroids for the last oh 15-20 years?
    When people say that I don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

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    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Ironically, if you asked me which past Reds you would suspect of being on the juice, Jack Armstrong is one of the first to come to mind. Seemingly came out of nowhere due to an improved workout regime and then burned out fast.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

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    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Ironically, if you asked me which past Reds you would suspect of being on the juice, Jack Armstrong is one of the first to come to mind. Seemingly came out of nowhere due to an improved workout regime and then burned out fast.
    What, exactly, are you guys trying to protect? It seems fairly obvious that an overwhelming number of the statistics over the last twenty years or so are severely skewed by performance enhancing drugs. Baseball will survive if every last one of these cheaters is identified. In fact, baseball will be stronger.

    I am amused by the number of people who seem to think it is better for baseball to sweep all of this under the rug and forget about it. Marianne Jones, Bill Romanowski, Jose Canseco, Palmiero, Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds... these are all a bunch of clowns who thought they could pull the wool over everyone's eyes on the way to earning big money and fame. It should be a celebration every time one of these imposters gets busted and embarassed in the public eye.

    This is the greatest game of them all. Expunge the idiots who have made a mockery of it. Every time one of them gets busted, I have a toast.

    I am prepared for the Mitchell report, and I don't care how many Reds are on it either.

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Quote Originally Posted by Santo Alcala View Post
    What, exactly, are you guys trying to protect?

    This is the greatest game of them all. Expunge the idiots who have made a mockery of it. Every time one of them gets busted, I have a toast.

    I am prepared for the Mitchell report, and I don't care how many Reds are on it either.
    And what exactly will MLB do when the Mitchell report does come out? I am afraid it will be more about image protection and not about doing the right thing. I have no evidence, but in my own mind I think those trying to "do things now" are the same ones who knew this was going on and chose to ignore it. What will the punishment be for those mentioned, will MLB be willing to fork out legal expenses for those who might sue to protect their image and will MLB mention prominent names or just those who will good for sacrificial lamb status?

    I am skeptical. Those in charge have made me this way. My trust-factor is near zero with those running the greatest game.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    And he was a bit of an eccentric. I once saw him in a leather pair of overalls with no shirt on underneath at Caddy's.

    I'm not a fan at all, but my belief is he is probably right, though a call to come clean is a helping full of wishful thinking.

    There's no way in hell that 60-80% were juicing, even in a "subtler, maintenance kind of way."
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008


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