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View Poll Results: Who is the Reds #15 Prospect?

Voters
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  • Scott Carroll

    0 0%
  • Chris Dickerson

    4 5.19%
  • Juan Francisco

    19 24.68%
  • Rafael Gonzalez

    0 0%
  • Sean Henry

    0 0%
  • Evan Hildenbrandt

    1 1.30%
  • Sam Lecure

    2 2.60%
  • Marcus McBeth

    2 2.60%
  • Tyler Pelland

    5 6.49%
  • Adam Rosales

    3 3.90%
  • Jordan Smith

    0 0%
  • Neftali Soto

    12 15.58%
  • Craig Tatum

    0 0%
  • Daryl Thompson

    7 9.09%
  • Justin Turner

    2 2.60%
  • Chris Valaika

    1 1.30%
  • Pedro Viola

    6 7.79%
  • Brandon Waring

    13 16.88%
  • Other (Please Specify)

    0 0%
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Thread: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

  1. #16
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Again it's time guys. Although I do like Pelland I think Viola could be slightly better.
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  3. #17
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    47 Homeruns in 132 games. Brandon Waring.
    He had only five less HR than Francisco did in half of the at bats and only a level lower. .369 OBP% vs. .301 as well.

  4. #18
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    He had only five less HR than Francisco did in half of the at bats and only a level lower. .369 OBP% vs. .301 as well.
    He could join Francisco in that category if he doesn't cut back the K's. When it comes to the only thing that makes these guys intriguing, raw power, it looks like Waring is outshining Francisco at the moment, but scouts seem to dig Francisco, and if they felt the same way about Waring, he wouldn't have slipped so far in the draft. Just me speculating though. It's tough to tell at this point who has the edge. Hopefully BA can shed some light on the subject in the Prospect Handbook this year.

  5. #19
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Doug, someone, maybe you, said on minorleagueball.com that Soto was injured during part of last season. What's the story on that?
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  6. #20
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Quote Originally Posted by HBP View Post
    He had only five less HR than Francisco did in half of the at bats and only a level lower. .369 OBP% vs. .301 as well.
    Waring is a college player, Francisco is younger and still played at a higher level.

    Doug, next round Derrick Lutz, please. And thanks for doing the polls.
    Last edited by Kc61; 12-12-2007 at 12:30 AM.

  7. #21
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    It's really hard for me to see anything impressive about Fransisco. He might have "upside" but I don't think he has any upside. The chance of a player improving his plate discipline so much to even a respectable 0.340 OBP is just not realistic. I would say Beltre would be his upside comp, but then Beltre had a career .391 OBP in the minors and almost a 1:1 BB/K.
    Even though Khalil Greene wasn't a HS draft pick, I would say he's a close hitting comp. Greene is a decent player, but most of his value is tied up in his defense. He has some power, but his AVG/OBP and BB/KK is just so bad.
    Also Juan Uribe may in fact be the closest comp. Both HS picks, both have horrible plate discipline. Do you really think a Juan Uribe hitter from a 3B/OF position is something you want. I really think his realistic upside is him. You may want to think he can be a Beltre, but he is no where close to him so far in the minors.

  8. #22
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Francisco is younger and still played at a higher level.
    Honestly, if you're devoid of OB skills, and Francisco is, I don't care how old you are, where you played or what other skills you've got.
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  9. #23
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    I went with Soto again. After he makes the list, I'll probably start voting for Rosales.

  10. #24
    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Could one argue that Waring in college played better competition than in rookie ball and did what he shouldve done which is dominate.

  11. #25
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Honestly, if you're devoid of OB skills, and Francisco is, I don't care how old you are, where you played or what other skills you've got.

    I guess I don't understand that argument. A player like Francisco, who started last season at A ball at 19 years old, undoubtedly can improve his strike zone judgment and on base skills.

    When a hitter is so productive as Francisco was, just project modest improvement in on base skills. He hit 25 homers now, these numbers could be extraordinary with such a modest improvement.

    The question here is not who is the best player currently, but the best prospect. When a guy shows the power Francisco has, at his tender age, and has a great throwing arm, I think he is a pretty good prospect.

  12. #26
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I guess I don't understand that argument. A player like Francisco, who started last season at A ball at 19 years old, undoubtedly can improve his strike zone judgment and on base skills.

    When a hitter is so productive as Francisco was, just project modest improvement in on base skills. He hit 25 homers now, these numbers could be extraordinary with such a modest improvement.

    The question here is not who is the best player currently, but the best prospect. When a guy shows the power Francisco has, at his tender age, and has a great throwing arm, I think he is a pretty good prospect.
    Don't bet on much (or any) plate discipline developing. Typically players either have it, or they don't, and if they don't have plate discipline it's oftentimes very difficult to learn and acquire. Oftentimes when you see players learn more plate discipline, they already had a fair amount from an early point. Francisco has none at this point, and it's not likely he'll ever have any.

    For his minor league career, Francisco has a career 27.17 PA/BB. Awful doesn't even begin to describe that.
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  13. #27
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Also, Waring is only a year and a half older than Francisco.

  14. #28
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Don't bet on much (or any) plate discipline developing. Typically players either have it, or they don't, and if they don't have plate discipline it's oftentimes very difficult to learn and acquire. Oftentimes when you see players learn more plate discipline, they already had a fair amount from an early point. Francisco has none at this point, and it's not likely he'll ever have any.

    For his minor league career, Francisco has a career 27.17 PA/BB. Awful doesn't even begin to describe that.
    I'm not betting on any of this, but Baseball America had Francisco as the number 8 prospect in the Reds organization. Somebody over there thinks his OBP can improve.

  15. #29
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I guess I don't understand that argument. A player like Francisco, who started last season at A ball at 19 years old, undoubtedly can improve his strike zone judgment and on base skills.

    When a hitter is so productive as Francisco was, just project modest improvement in on base skills. He hit 25 homers now, these numbers could be extraordinary with such a modest improvement.

    The question here is not who is the best player currently, but the best prospect. When a guy shows the power Francisco has, at his tender age, and has a great throwing arm, I think he is a pretty good prospect.
    Actually it's a fairly rare player who dramatically improves his BB rates as he progresses through the minors. Also, Francisco isn't just a guy who's got a poor approach at the plate, he has a horrific approach at the plate. He's walked 29 times in 752 ABs. He doesn't need modest improvement, he needs to become a wholly different ballplayer.

    When you suffers from a complete dearth of OB skills you don't project as being anything, you're a non-prospect. It renders whatever other tools you may have meaningless. BA fumbles on guys like Francisco all the time. I'd sell him before folks like that catch on.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  16. #30
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    Re: Redszone Community Prospect Vote #15

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Actually it's a fairly rare player who dramatically improves his BB rates as he progresses through the minors. Also, Francisco isn't just a guy who's got a poor approach at the plate, he has a horrific approach at the plate. He's walked 29 times in 752 ABs. He doesn't need modest improvement, he needs to become a wholly different ballplayer.

    When you suffers from a complete dearth of OB skills you don't project as being anything, you're a non-prospect. It renders whatever other tools you may have meaningless. BA fumbles on guys like Francisco all the time. I'd sell him before folks like that catch on.
    I don't think dramatic improvement should be expected. If he hit 25 homers with terrible OBP skills, even C- OBP skills could result in an excellent power hitter.

    I don't expect this player to become a table setter, he's not going to be Ichiro. But if he has a .325 OBP this guy can be a terrific power hitter lower in the lineup.


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