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Thread: Here we go...Haren/D'backs get Haren

  1. #46
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I agree that Bailey's exposure this summer removed some of his luster, though he did pitch his best game against the A's.
    Too bad Beane doesn't watch the A's games.
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  3. #47
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Perhaps, but I'm not seeing anyone offering anything better. Bailey, Votto and extras is roughly equivalent to what the Marlins got for Miggy Cabrera AND Dontrelle Willis.

    I agree that Bailey's exposure this summer removed some of his luster, though he did pitch his best game against the A's.
    Marlins are in a very different spot from where Beane is, IMO.

    And the package sent from Detroit is a better one than the Reds' IMO.

  4. #48
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Perhaps, but I'm not seeing anyone offering anything better. Bailey, Votto and extras is roughly equivalent to what the Marlins got for Miggy Cabrera AND Dontrelle Willis.
    I don't know if I really buy that. If that were the case, the Reds should have made that deal, then flipped Encarnacion and Belisle or even Cueto for Lincecum.

    The Reds would have had a rotation of

    Harang
    Lincecum
    Arroyo
    Willis
    Belisle/Cueto

    with Miguel Cabrera manning 3B instead of Encarnacion, while still holding on to Bruce and Hamilton. I think no matter what happens in the next couple of months, this scenario would have far exceeded whatever the Reds will end up with. Maybe you're right, maybe Wayne just missed the boat, but I can't imagine the Fish really value Bailey and Votto as much as the return they got from Detroit.
    Go BLUE!!!

  5. #49
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    I think right now, that Bruce is the 800 lb. gorilla in the room when it comes to the Reds hunt for a starter. I think his potential is so great that no GM is going to deal a prime starter without seeing if they can't sweat him out of WK.

    I think that guys like Hamilton, Cueto, Votto & Hamilton still have quite a bit of value and the Reds have a number of attractive"secondary pieces" too. In the end, if WK sticks to his guns, I think he can land a decent top three type starter for a deal he can live with.

    Looking back at my "roll your own" post, a GM could come up with a deal of say, Hamilton, Bailey, Stubbs and Roenicke - pretty steep, but I'd still do it for Bedard, Haren or Kazmir.

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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    I think right now, that Bruce is the 800 lb. gorilla in the room when it comes to the Reds hunt for a starter. I think his potential is so great that no GM is going to deal a prime starter without seeing if they can't sweat him out of WK.
    I agree 9 million percent.

    Plus they saw two seasons ago what he surrendered for two sub-average relievers.

  7. #51
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Marlins are in a very different spot from where Beane is, IMO.

    And the package sent from Detroit is a better one than the Reds' IMO.
    I like Miller better than Bailey. Maybin's got some plate issues to sort out though. Say what you will about Votto playing a deep position, but he's legit with a bat in his hands. Everyone else the Fish got from the Tigers was pure filler. A little quality at the back of the offer and I'd say the difference between the two offers would mostly come down to matters of taste.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  8. #52
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Plus they saw two seasons ago what he surrendered for two sub-average relievers.
    I don't think that plays into it. It seems to me the O's and A's have the leverage and the Reds do not.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #53
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I agree that Bailey's exposure this summer removed some of his luster, though he did pitch his best game against the A's.
    Oh gosh, I remember that. That was Dreamy Bailey. Incredible performance.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Would anyone do Bailey and Cueto straight up for Bedard, Haren, or Kazmir? No frills, two for one?

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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I like Miller better than Bailey. Maybin's got some plate issues to sort out though. Say what you will about Votto playing a deep position, but he's legit with a bat in his hands. Everyone else the Fish got from the Tigers was pure filler. A little quality at the back of the offer and I'd say the difference between the two offers would mostly come down to matters of taste.
    I like Votto. In GAB.

    But out in Oakland, he'd be Sean Casey (2006 version)

  12. #56
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Would anyone do Bailey and Cueto straight up for Bedard, Haren, or Kazmir? No frills, two for one?
    take you pick as far as I am concerned.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  13. #57
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    I don't think that plays into it. It seems to me the O's and A's have the leverage and the Reds do not.
    They do have leverage, but come on, these guys know they're dealing with human beings on the other end of the phone. Very fallible humans.

  14. #58
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFan View Post
    That makes total sense...wasn't taking that into account at all.
    Bonds costs nothing in terms of talent to acquire - you can add Bonds to the lineup and still have your haul of young talent for Haren. The market for Bonds is pretty soft now too. It will be interesting to see if he ends up signing for much more than AD.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 12-12-2007 at 11:16 AM.

  15. #59
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I like Votto. In GAB.

    But out in Oakland, he'd be Sean Casey (2006 version)
    Nah, he's got power and bat speed Casey never had.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #60
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go...Haren

    I wonder if the Reds could get BOTH Haren AND Bedard. I'd give up Bailey, Cueto, Bruce and others for that.

    Pie in the sky thinking, though.
    Sabermetrics can be boiled down to this simple truism: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.


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