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Thread: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

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  1. #1
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    Lets hypothetically say that Hamilton is dealt in a deal to aquire Haren, Bedard or whomever. I think most people have assumed Hamilton hits leadoff for Dusty this year, so what happens if Hamilton isn't here?

    Without Hamilton, one of three things will happen.

    1. Norris Hopper or Ryan Freel holds the job down until Jay Bruce is deemed "ready".
    2. The Reds sign Mike Cameron to a two year deal.
    3. The Reds give the keys to Jay Bruce.

    If option one happens, then you would assume Hopper/Freel would hit leadoff everyday, and redszone would melt down. If either two or three happens, your team would look something like this:

    C: Ross
    1B: Votto
    2B: Phillips
    SS: Gonzalez
    3B: Encarnacion
    LF: Dunn
    CF: Cameron/Bruce
    RF: Griffey

    Who hits leadoff among the group? Phillips seems the most likely, but we all know his plate approach is swing, swing, and then swing some more. Votto isn't your traditional leadoff hitter (although neither was Hamilton), and after that I'm not sure you would even consider hitting any of theother guys leadoff.

    So if Hamilton goes, who is the leadoff man?

  2. #2
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    I think it fully depends on the look of the team when the dust clears

  3. #3
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    I think you'd have to go with Phillips.
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    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    1B Votto
    3B Encarnacion
    LF Dunn (or RF Griffey)
    RF Griffey (or LF Dunn)
    CF Bruce
    2B Phillips
    C Ross
    SS Gonzalez

    It's what I'd do. It's also what we'll never see for even one game in 2008.
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    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  5. #5
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    1B Votto
    3B Encarnacion
    LF Dunn (or RF Griffey)
    RF Griffey (or LF Dunn)
    CF Bruce
    2B Phillips
    C Ross
    SS Gonzalez

    It's what I'd do. It's also what we'll never see for even one game in 2008.
    I like that.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  6. #6
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    1B Votto
    3B Encarnacion
    LF Dunn (or RF Griffey)
    RF Griffey (or LF Dunn)
    CF Bruce
    2B Phillips
    C Ross
    SS Gonzalez

    It's what I'd do. It's also what we'll never see for even one game in 2008.
    I like that as well. Phillips will never hit that low in the order though. Votto and EE will probably never hit that high either.

  7. #7
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    I like that as well. Phillips will never hit that low in the order though. Votto and EE will probably never hit that high either.
    Yeah I don't see Phillips hitting that low either. It would make alot of sense to bat Votto leadoff instead of the middle/bottom of the order becuase of the absurd amount of lefties we have.

    1B Votto
    2B Phillips
    LF Dunn
    RF Griffey
    3B Encarnacion
    CF Bruce
    SS Gonzalez
    C Ross

  8. #8
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    1B Votto
    3B Encarnacion
    LF Dunn (or RF Griffey)
    RF Griffey (or LF Dunn)
    CF Bruce
    2B Phillips
    C Ross
    SS Gonzalez

    It's what I'd do. It's also what we'll never see for even one game in 2008.
    It certainly couldn't hurt much more than nearly any of the other possibilities. Although I like the idea of protecting Bruce, I think BP has earned the right to hit higher. But more importantly BP probably feels the same way.

    But here's what I would do.

    CF Bruce
    2B BP
    LF Dunn
    RF Griffey
    3B EEE
    1B Votto
    SS Gonzo
    C Ross/Javy
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  9. #9
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    It certainly couldn't hurt much more than nearly any of the other possibilities. Although I like the idea of protecting Bruce, I think BP has earned the right to hit higher. But more importantly BP probably feels the same way.

    But here's what I would do.

    CF Bruce
    2B BP
    LF Dunn
    RF Griffey
    3B EEE
    1B Votto
    SS Gonzo
    C Ross/Javy
    Phillips makes too many outs for my liking. Dude had what everyone considers a phenomenal year last year, and he still had a PA/Out ratio of 1.39. Edwin Encarnacion had what many consider to be a bit of a disappointing year, and he had a PA/Out ratio of 1.53, which is considerably better than Phillips' 1.39.

    Phillips is a decent power hitter, especially for his position, and offers a different look on the bases with his speed. But I just don't want that ratio of outs anywhere near the top of the lineup.

    Fewer outs ===> more baserunners ===> more runs, even if it isn't in the most flashy way.
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    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  10. #10
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    Phillips makes too many outs for my liking. Dude had what everyone considers a phenomenal year last year, and he still had a PA/Out ratio of 1.39. Edwin Encarnacion had what many consider to be a bit of a disappointing year, and he had a PA/Out ratio of 1.53, which is considerably better than Phillips' 1.39.

    Phillips is a decent power hitter, especially for his position, and offers a different look on the bases with his speed. But I just don't want that ratio of outs anywhere near the top of the lineup.

    Fewer outs ===> more baserunners ===> more runs, even if it isn't in the most flashy way.
    I understand the logic, however I would expect BP to improve his discipline allbeit ever so slightly unless of course Dusty talks him out of it (could be). That said if BP isn't up there Votto perhaps shouldn't be either, I dunno his PA/OUT % for when he was up but it's too early to tell whether or not he could do that. And although he is a good baserunner/stealer for his position he doesn't have the potential of a Bruce on the basepaths.

    Frankly I would use Hopper myself (although I know how people feel about him) but that can only work if Griffey were moved to another team.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  11. #11
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    I understand the logic, however I would expect BP to improve his discipline allbeit ever so slightly unless of course Dusty talks him out of it (could be). That said if BP isn't up there Votto perhaps shouldn't be either, I dunno his PA/OUT % for when he was up but it's too early to tell whether or not he could do that. And although he is a good baserunner/stealer for his position he doesn't have the potential of a Bruce on the basepaths.

    Frankly I would use Hopper myself (although I know how people feel about him) but that can only work if Griffey were moved to another team.
    The absolute last thing I would expect out of Brandon Phillips is to improve his plate discipline. He had 115 more plate appearances in 2007 than he did in 2006, and he actually took two fewer walks.

    Brandon Phillips is the epitome of a Mr. Swing-at-Everything. Nothing I have ever seen from him indicates that will ever change.

    Votto's PA/Out ratio in Louisville last season was 1.54; with the Reds in September it was 1.56. It wouldn't shock me if Joey Votto posts an on-base percentage more than 20 points higher than Brandon Phillips in 2008. Wouldn't shock me one bit.
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    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  12. #12
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    It certainly couldn't hurt much more than nearly any of the other possibilities. Although I like the idea of protecting Bruce, I think BP has earned the right to hit higher. But more importantly BP probably feels the same way.

    But here's what I would do.

    CF Bruce
    2B BP
    LF Dunn
    RF Griffey
    3B EEE
    1B Votto
    SS Gonzo
    C Ross/Javy
    Going off of minor league stats only last year (I'm not even including Votto's insane September in Cincy) I think I would rather have Votto's 110-70 K/BB ratio hitting leadoff then Bruce's 135-47 K/BB ratio. If there is one concern about Bruce, it's his K's compared to his walks.

  13. #13
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone792 View Post
    1B Votto
    3B Encarnacion
    LF Dunn (or RF Griffey)
    RF Griffey (or LF Dunn)
    CF Bruce
    2B Phillips
    C Ross
    SS Gonzalez

    It's what I'd do. It's also what we'll never see for even one game in 2008.
    It's still what I'd do.

    It's still also what we'll never see for even one game in 2008.
    Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012

    Put an end to the Lost Decade.

  14. #14
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    Unfortunately I could see Hopper written at the top of the lineup card far more often than I'd care to see.

    Should Baker do the right thing, and not start Hopper on a regular basis (should Hamilton be traded), then the leading candidates would be Votto or Phillips. I guess?

    I would prefer Votto before Phillips for the leadoff spot. Phillips would be a low OBP, semi-decent SLG out making machine at the top of the lineup.

  15. #15
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff?

    I think the idea that we'd sign Cameron is laughable, frankly -- though I know the rumor that we were interested was floating around mlbtraderumors or some such.

    vR
    1B: Votto
    LF: Dunn
    RF: Griffey
    CF: Bruce
    3B: Encarnacion
    2B: Phillips
    SS: Gonzalez
    C: Ross

    vL:
    3B: Encarnacion
    LF: Dunn
    2B: Phillips
    RF: Griffey
    CF: Bruce
    1B: Votto
    SS: Gonzalez
    C: Ross

    If Dusty bats Phillips higher than 5th against righties -- ever -- I'm going to flip.

    I really don't care about going R/L/R/L unless I have two comprable players. I'll design my lineup to beat up the starter and make their LOOGY irrelevant.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 12-12-2007 at 07:00 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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