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Thread: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

  1. #16
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    Belisle could be just as valuable in the pen as he would be in the rotation. At one point in the season his starts were skipped. To say his rotation spot is solidified no matter what is pre-mature. I think if you add a control guy like Towers and trade for a Capuano or Lee and factor in Bailey and or Cueto (who some scouts say is further along then Bailey) where does that leave Belisle?
    Wasn't Belisle fighting some tendinitis or soreness for a couple weeks this season. Belisle started for a full season for the first time in five seasons, and he did well for a #5. I expect him to step up a notch and be a nice number four this season. His peripherals were decent and he was a little unlucky.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds View Post
    The O's are going to have to find a SS now that Tejada is gone. They don't have one in the pipeline and the Reds are a poor match to fill that hole. Seattle has a SS prospect, but the O's are going to have to do something here.

    Let's go with:
    Bailey/Cueto, Hamilton, Keppinger, Wood

    for

    Bedard and Cabrera

    Bailey/Cueto and Hamilton should really be enough for Bedard, but tossing in a shortstop (has to be Keppinger due to age and salary) to cover the next year or two should help fill all of the holes the Orioles have. Wood balances out the trade when bringing back Cabrera.

    Hamilton fills their CF need as they would love to get rid of/deal Payton.

    Cabrera fills the #5 slot and relieves some of the pressure on Bailey/Cueto (whoever is not traded) to naturally develop into the rotation.
    I really like the idea of getting Cabrera as well, but I'm not sure if the O's would move him in the same deal as Bedard. I think their plan is to deal players that won't be around after '09, and I'm not sure Cabrera falls into that category.

    You may be onto something with including Keppinger in the deal now that they need a SS. If Kepp and Votto are in the deal, I'd like to approach Jr. about moving to 1B. If he resists, you can ask him to waive his no-trade, and then sign Kevin Mench to platoon with Hatteberg.

    I still believe Jr. to the Cubs for Sean Marshall could work.
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  4. #18
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    I'd love to get Bedard... but if not i'd sign the following:

    Josh Towers and Mark Prior

    and then look to make a deal with either Cliff Lee or Chris Capuano.

    This allows you to keep most of your prospects and a rotation of:

    Harang
    Arroyo
    Capuano/Lee
    Towers
    Bailey/Cueto/Belisle

    (Belisle would then be moved to pen if not in rotation)

    And have Prior around June or July.
    I would rather get Lee than Capuano if I'm going for a lefty, who can probably be had for a song after last year. I might go for Lee in a minor trade regardless of the Bedard/Haren sweepstakes results.

  5. #19
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds View Post
    The O's are going to have to find a SS now that Tejada is gone. They don't have one in the pipeline and the Reds are a poor match to fill that hole. Seattle has a SS prospect, but the O's are going to have to do something here.

    Let's go with:
    Bailey/Cueto, Hamilton, Keppinger, Wood

    for

    Bedard and Cabrera

    Bailey/Cueto and Hamilton should really be enough for Bedard, but tossing in a shortstop (has to be Keppinger due to age and salary) to cover the next year or two should help fill all of the holes the Orioles have. Wood balances out the trade when bringing back Cabrera.

    Hamilton fills their CF need as they would love to get rid of/deal Payton.

    Cabrera fills the #5 slot and relieves some of the pressure on Bailey/Cueto (whoever is not traded) to naturally develop into the rotation.
    O's might not need the SS position as much as they may need the 2nd base position. They have a young SS in Luis Hernandez but if they deal Roberts then they would be would be needing a 2nd baseman. I'm not even going to mention Phillips (RH'ed offensive bat w/ A+ defense).. but would Freel, Janish, or Keppinger fit the bill?

    The deal I'd lay out would either be:

    Bailey/Cueto, Hamilton/Votto, Janish, and Thompson for Bedard

    or

    Bruce, Stanton, Janish, Thompson, and Cash (Half of Stanton's salary) for Bedard
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


    2008 Reds Record When I Attend: 9W - 5L

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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    If Kepp and Votto are in the deal, I'd like to approach Jr. about moving to 1B. If he resists, you can ask him to waive his no-trade, and then sign Kevin Mench to platoon with Hatteberg.

    I still believe Jr. to the Cubs for Sean Marshall could work.
    With all the talent coming into play, it's really in Junior's best interest to recognize that there's an opportunity coming his way that he hasn't had since the ARod/Johnson/Junior days at Seattle. If he understands that this is his best shot to get a ring, I don't see how he could turn that opportunity down.

    But if he does, it gives the Reds some serious leverage to move him.

  7. #21
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds View Post
    Bailey/Cueto, Hamilton, Keppinger, Wood

    for

    Bedard and Cabrera
    FWIW, the Reds package you offer is comprable to what most Orioles people think MacPhail expects for Bedard alone.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #22
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Would you be putting Prior in the pen or is this assuming he starts on the DL?
    DL

    With his surgery I don't think he will be able to pitch until late May or June.. so that would give him some rehab starts and have him ready around late June and July.
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    FWIW, the Reds package you offer is comprable to what most Orioles people think MacPhail expects for Bedard alone.
    I realize that. So, somewhere in between their expectations and ours is where the deal is.

    The difference is not a Jay Bruce difference - more like an added second-tier prospect difference.

  10. #24
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I would rather get Lee than Capuano if I'm going for a lefty, who can probably be had for a song after last year. I might go for Lee in a minor trade regardless of the Bedard/Haren sweepstakes results.
    I agree, the Reds need LHP in a bad way and Lee was the apple of the eye of the team on the north coast...now, not so much.

    BTW, what do his extended stats look like like Ground Balls, WHIP, Etc.

    For what it is worth, I would rather have Haren than Bedard.
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  11. #25
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I would rather get Lee than Capuano if I'm going for a lefty, who can probably be had for a song after last year. I might go for Lee in a minor trade regardless of the Bedard/Haren sweepstakes results.
    I'm curious why you'd prefer Lee. They're quite similar but Capuano strikes out about an extra guy per 9 and isn't quite the flyball pitcher Lee is.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #26
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    If the Brian Roberts to the Cubs rumors are true, I'd exect Ronny Cedeno to be part of the return. So I'm not so sure a SS would be a component of a Bedard deal. Rather I'd think the O's would be trying to get the best of what they can from their trading partner, regardless of position.
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  13. #27
    The Mad Monk Jaycint's Avatar
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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    The more I think about Bedard vs Haren vs MacPhail vs Beane, I'd rather Krivsky work with Beane. At least they've had success in the past.
    I agree with this. It just seems like the Orioles front office is littered with hard to deal with types who don't want to do a deal unless it leans heavily in their favor.

    Beane seems like a much more pragmatic fellow that doesn't feel the need to rip someone off in order to get the pieces back that he wants.

    And yeah, he and Krivsky have dealt with each other in the past so on the surface it seems like they have a decent enough relationship to get something done that is fair for both parties.

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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    For those that have already read my no to Lee speech, disregard.

    Lee's numbers have trended in the wrong direction since he has broken into the league. Every year his Ks have decreased, while his hits, BB and HR per inning have steadily increased. He went down to Buffalo and gave up nearly 6 BB/9.

    He publicly blamed the coaches for his struggles as they suggested a slight change to his delivery in the spring and he never was able to pitch the way he wanted. Perhaps they were attempting to prevent the aforementioned slide. He's a knucklehead. I would not be surprised to see him put up Milton like numbers in the Reds' homer friendly ballpark.

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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    For those that have already read my no to Lee speech, disregard.

    Lee's numbers have trended in the wrong direction since he has broken into the league. Every year his Ks have decreased, while his hits, BB and HR per inning have steadily increased. He went down to Buffalo and gave up nearly 6 BB/9.

    He publicly blamed the coaches for his struggles as they suggested a slight change to his delivery in the spring and he never was able to pitch the way he wanted. Perhaps they were attempting to prevent the aforementioned slide. He's a knucklehead. I would not be surprised to see him put up Milton like numbers in the Reds' homer friendly ballpark.
    sometimes Indian disappointments blossom with the Reds

  16. #30
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Fay Update (Time for a new Bedard thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    Good grief.

    I can't see the Bedard thing happening at all. They land Scott, and they're still insisting on Bruce. Forget about them wanting Hamilton.

    .
    I'm afraid we aren't going to have a chair to sit on when the music stops, and Wayne isn't going to get us a stud pitcher.

    Baltimore actually wants to trade Bedard. The Reds refuse to give Bruce. But there's probably another 6 teams also in on Bedard.
    Cleveland is now in on the action. The thing is, if the Reds refuse to budge on Bruce, my guess is that the O's will find someone who will give in on their demands.

    I doubt the Reds are in on Santana.

    SF was quoted as saying that Cain and Linecrum are off the table, now that they signed their FA CF.. I question whether they were ever really on the table to begin with.

    Likewise, I think Beane is just shopping Haren to see if someone gets desparate. I can almost guarantee that the asking price will be more than Bedard. Why should Beane settle for less? He's got Haren locked up for 3 years?

    So, who's left?
    It's apparent that Wayne is trying to play "Wait and see" and hope the price drops. I think every day that passes makes it less likely the deal gets done. Oakland and Baltimore are going to think that Bruce (and who knows what other prospets) are untouchable and just cross the Reds off their list.
    I fear we are going to see a talent rich team like the Indians swoop in and grab Bedard, and then Haren's price goes up even more, and Wayne will be too stubborn to pay.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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