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View Poll Results: Should Roger Clemens make the hall?

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  • Yes: Roger Clemens should make the hall, whether it be with an asterik or unmarked.

    34 38.20%
  • No: He should get the same treatment as Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire

    55 61.80%
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Thread: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

  1. #1
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    ESPN had a poll out asking whether or not people thought Clemens should be in the hall with 46% saying yes while 39% said no.

    However, if you were to ask the same question about Barry Bonds, the results have more often than not been different. All I can ask is why?
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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  3. #2
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post

    However, if you were to ask the same question about Barry Bonds, the results have more often than not been different. All I can ask is why?
    The JERK factor weighs more in Barry's case.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

  4. #3
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Steroids for pitchers is a longevity helper rather than a performance helper.

    Steroids or no steroids, Roger Clemens is a HOF.

  5. #4
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Barry was a probable HOFer before juice.

    Clemens? I'm not as sure.

  6. #5
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    ESPN had a poll out asking whether or not people thought Clemens should be in the hall with 46% saying yes while 39% said no.

    However, if you were to ask the same question about Barry Bonds, the results have more often than not been different. All I can ask is why?
    There is a lot more proof on Bonds for starters.... he did admit to taking steroids, albeit unknowingly.

  7. #6
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Steroids for pitchers is a longevity helper rather than a performance helper.

    Steroids or no steroids, Roger Clemens is a HOF.
    In Clemens case he was able to perform at a high level for a longer period of time due to alledgedly taking performance enhancing drugs.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  8. #7
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Yes, for now. If they come up with some real proof, I'd change my mind.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  9. #8
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Take away 100 wins from Clemens and he's still a HoF pitcher. Bonds is a HoF in my book too, steroids or not. McGwire I'm still undecided about.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #9
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Take away 100 wins from Clemens and he's still a HoF pitcher. Bonds is a HoF in my book too, steroids or not.
    That may be, but without steroids, are their major league careers as long?

    If their careers aren't as long, are the numbers as staggering? Are the careers long enough to still have the numbers they do?
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 12-13-2007 at 08:40 PM.

  11. #10
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Take away 100 wins from Clemens and he's still a HoF pitcher. Bonds is a HoF in my book too, steroids or not. McGwire I'm still undecided about.
    Here is the situation though.... while they may have had hall of fame talent and hall of fame numbers even if they hadn't cheated, they did cheat and thats when you have to question things. I mean Pete Rose without the gambling was a hall of famer wasn't he? Joe Jackson was a hall of famer without the throwing of the games (whether he did it or not is another story).....

  12. #11
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    it's a shame.

    2 sure fire HoF'ers, who became cheaters in order to make more money.

    I'm sure that both will make the Hall, but there is no question that their ultimate fate will be to be seen as cheaters. They cheated to gain a competitive edge (mostly on guys they already had a competitive edge on anyway- talent wise).

    I've never admired Roger Clemens, mostly because I know from folks who know him that he is just as big a jerk as Bonds, but now I have more reason to lump him with Bonds.

    Oh, they both have HoF numbers, and both are among the best baseball players I have ever laid eyes on. But that's all I can say- they have soiled themselves as every bit as badly as Rose did, IMO. And I idolized Rose when I was a child.

    They do not, however, IMO, fall from the pantheon as far as the Black Sox. Throwing games on purpose for money is worse, in my twisted mind, than cheating to try to win more games, if that makes any sense at all. Both are wrong, both are cheating, but one is worse than the other.

    This is a very sad day for baseball. And I think there was a lot of covering up going on in that report. well, maybe not covering up, but a lot of not covering every lead they had- this was an industry wide problem- definitely not limited to 60-80 men.

  13. #12
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Here is the situation though.... while they may have had hall of fame talent and hall of fame numbers even if they hadn't cheated, they did cheat and thats when you have to question things. I mean Pete Rose without the gambling was a hall of famer wasn't he? Joe Jackson was a hall of famer without the throwing of the games (whether he did it or not is another story).....
    Rose's infraction deals with the integrity of the game.

    Clemens and Bonds' transgressions are a completely different animal, and not on the same level as a violation against the integrity of the game.

  14. #13
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Rose's infraction deals with the integrity of the game.

    Clemens and Bonds' transgressions are a completely different animal, and not on the same level as a violation against the integrity of the game.
    I completely disagree.

  15. #14
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Rose's infraction deals with the integrity of the game.

    Clemens and Bonds' transgressions are a completely different animal, and not on the same level as a violation against the integrity of the game.
    According to Bud Selig, they too hurt the integrity of the game....

    Bud better be careful with this one...he's bound to stick his foot in his mouth again...of course he's probably used to that by now.

  16. #15
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Rose's infraction deals with the integrity of the game.

    Clemens and Bonds' transgressions are a completely different animal, and not on the same level as a violation against the integrity of the game.
    Rose bet on baseball, using insider info to try to make more money for himself.

    Clemens and Bonds used steroids to try to make more money for themselves, and according to Selig and Mitchell, violated the integrity of the game.

    I know they are different infractions (drugs v. betting) but the intended effect is the same.

    How do you see it differently, Hlm21?


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