Turn Off Ads?

View Poll Results: Clemens and the HOF

Voters
50. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    22 44.00%
  • No

    28 56.00%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23

Thread: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    130

    Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    If the allegations are true that clemens used steroids from 97-2001 ( and possibly longer) does he deserve to get into the HOF?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Centerville,OH
    Posts
    660

    Should Clemens Make the HOF

    There is a similar thread in the ORG and I wanted to add my opinion.

    If you look at Clemens career stats, three out of his last four years with the red sox were very poor in terms of ERA and wins between 1992 and 1996. However, if his stats drastically increased when he went to Toronto and allegedly started using steroids and/or HGH to enhance his performance. He became a 20 game winner in Toronto compared to a 10 game winner previously and his ERA dropped 2 points. The rest is rather well known then about his 7 Cy Youngs and time with the Yankees and Astros. Before Clemens went to Toronto he had 192 wins over 13 seasons, average of 14.7. If Clemens had only averaged 10 wins over the next 10 years he would have only ended up with 292 wins through 2006, assuming he could have lasted that long without being chemically engineered.

    Would you put a pitcher into the HOF that averaged 10 wins a season during the last half of his career. In my opinion the answer is no. But would Clemens have been a HOF pitcher had he retired in 1996 and my answer is yes. He had a series of 7 consecutive seasons that could be considered nothing short of dominant from 1986 through 1992, especially 1990 season which ranks right up there with Doc Gooden's 1985 season. While his career totals pre-steroids may not have added up to typical HOF stats I think you have to look at series of dominant performance and I consider a series of 6 or more seasons of dominant play to justify serious consideration for the HOF.

    I would vote to put Clemens into the HOF based on the first half of his career. Since you can't avoid mentioning the stats of the chemically engineered Clemens there should be an asterik or notation indicating that his later achievements are under suspicion for performance enhancers.

    If we refuse to put players into the HOF who are believed to be steroid users then the only HOFer for the next 20 years may only be Griffey.

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    130

    Re: Should Clemens Make the HOF

    Quote Originally Posted by steig View Post
    There is a similar thread in the ORG and I wanted to add my opinion.

    If you look at Clemens career stats, three out of his last four years with the red sox were very poor in terms of ERA and wins between 1992 and 1996. However, if his stats drastically increased when he went to Toronto and allegedly started using steroids and/or HGH to enhance his performance. He became a 20 game winner in Toronto compared to a 10 game winner previously and his ERA dropped 2 points. The rest is rather well known then about his 7 Cy Youngs and time with the Yankees and Astros. Before Clemens went to Toronto he had 192 wins over 13 seasons, average of 14.7. If Clemens had only averaged 10 wins over the next 10 years he would have only ended up with 292 wins through 2006, assuming he could have lasted that long without being chemically engineered.

    Would you put a pitcher into the HOF that averaged 10 wins a season during the last half of his career. In my opinion the answer is no. But would Clemens have been a HOF pitcher had he retired in 1996 and my answer is yes. He had a series of 7 consecutive seasons that could be considered nothing short of dominant from 1986 through 1992, especially 1990 season which ranks right up there with Doc Gooden's 1985 season. While his career totals pre-steroids may not have added up to typical HOF stats I think you have to look at series of dominant performance and I consider a series of 6 or more seasons of dominant play to justify serious consideration for the HOF.

    I would vote to put Clemens into the HOF based on the first half of his career. Since you can't avoid mentioning the stats of the chemically engineered Clemens there should be an asterik or notation indicating that his later achievements are under suspicion for performance enhancers.

    If we refuse to put players into the HOF who are believed to be steroid users then the only HOFer for the next 20 years may only be Griffey.
    Uh, Maddux? Pedro? Johnson? Arod? Piazza? Come on.

  5. #4
    Member mroby85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,282

    Re: Should Clemens Make the HOF

    I have one question, and this should be what the question is based upon...

    Are his stats good enough?

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    544

    Re: Should Clemens Make the HOF

    Clemens.... Yes
    Bonds..... Yes

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,189

    Re: Should Clemens Make the HOF

    id probably have to go with no

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Milford, Clifton
    Posts
    1,585

    Re: Should Clemens Make the HOF

    If Pete Rose didn't, then definitely not.
    Follow me on twitter @EricLilly7

  9. #8
    Member mroby85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,282

    Re: Should Clemens Make the HOF

    pete rose should be in too!
    it's not a group of good doers, it's a group of great baseball players, at least it's supposed to be, but that is becoming a joke in my opinion.

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    407

    Re: Should Clemens Make the HOF

    no

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Midland Texas
    Posts
    553

    Re: Clemens and the HOF

    If he does, the so does Pete.

  12. #11
    Member kbrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,176

    Re: Clemens and the HOF

    People need to quit comparing Pete and Clemens. Such different things.

  13. #12
    got alil captain in u?
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Bridgeport Ohio
    Posts
    4,839

    Re: Clemens and the HOF

    steriod users should be looked at on their whole career before and after the steriod use. If before they used steroids they had a hall of fame career than yes they should be in.

  14. #13
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,835

    Re: Should Clemens Make the HOF

    His stats up to the time he started using steroids (291 Wins, 2,500 K's) are not as good as Bert Blyleven's, who is not in the hall. The key is that he stats were in a free fall until he started using steroids. So it is doubtful that he would come close to HOF numbers if he had not used steroids. Boston let him go because they thought his best years were behind him. Looks like the were kinda right, now.

    He probably would end up with 210 wins and 2700 K's. There are a few pitchers with stats similar to those who are in the Hall, but most are not. The one's that are in, had a reputation for winning and great character. Clemens has neither. He had a history of choking in key games and not being a team player. So even without the steroids problem, he had a lot against him in terms of character. Steroids use really puts it over the top.

    No way he deserves to get in.

  15. #14
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ky
    Posts
    5,934

    Re: Clemens and the HOF

    If you think Bonds does not belong in the hall, then if you are intellectually honest...niether does Clemens. Just sayin'
    Not this year...maybe a Wild Card

  16. #15
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Ky
    Posts
    5,934

    Re: Should Roger Clemens Make the Hall of Fame?

    If you would not vote for Bonds, then you can't in good conscience vote for Clemens either...right?

    If you think Bonds deserves to be in the hall then Clemens also deserves it.

    I doubt that the voters will be as honest. The writers hate Bonds and Clemens gives good interviews.
    Not this year...maybe a Wild Card


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25