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Thread: Is Bonds today's big winner?

  1. #1
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Is Bonds today's big winner?

    So I'm just curious what everyone thinks about this question. Bonds' name has been tarnished so much over the last few years, and his records have been questioned time and time again. And yet, now that we have a much longer list including a lot of other star players, should we qualify our critiques? Do we now see Bonds in the correct context--a pandemic of performance enhancing drugs--that will ultimately exculpate him in the annals of history? Does the widespread use of steroids by so many others make Bonds' irascible attitude more understandable? Will he now become just one name among many, or will he remain the poster boy for an era of cheaters? What say you?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Manliness Personified HumnHilghtFreel's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    I think he will still be the poster-boy for the era, if only for what he has accomplished in it and because of his relationship with the media. However, as more names begin to come out, the light won't be shed as brightly on him and his accomplishments will be looked at much differently down the line.

    I'm still not quite sure what to think of all that has come out today.

  4. #3
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    I can't even begin to sort out logic that would make today's "revelations" a win for Bonds. Wrongdoing is never justified by the wrongdoing of others. It is all sickening to me, especially when you consider that there are a lot of guys who lost hundreds of thousands, and some millions, to cheaters. Some never got the chance to live the dream by stepping on a major league ball field because some fringe guy juiced and beat the non-juicer out of that last roster spot.

    Bonds win? I hope he never steps another foot on the field and gets convicted on all charges. Maybe he and Michael Vick can be bunkies.

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    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    I think Bonds and others have simply made individual records less meaningful, that's for sure. When I was a kid, I used to care about 61 and 755 and other records. But now, at least as far as I'm concerned, the only meaningful records are team Ws and Ls. Maybe that's how it should be.
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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    Mal de Muchos - Consuelo de Tontos

    Translation: The Misfortune of Many is the Consolation of Fools. (or something like that).
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    For a guy that was mentioned just short of 100 times in the Mitchell Report, that kind of exposure, given the subject matter, can't be good, especially given his current legal situation vs. the Feds.

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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    But didn't we all already expect Bonds to be mentioned all over the report? He might be the only player who didn't lose any cred by being named in those pages. Hasn't his status as "Enemy of the People #1" now been reduced to "Guy who Lied to the Grand Jury" because of something everyone he knew was doing?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    Honestly, I think Bonds and Clemens always need to be mentioned in the same sentence from now on: two lead-pipe HOF's who steadfastly denied cheating even when substantial evidence was mounted against them. Along with Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose, those two may just have joined the Hall of Infamy in my book.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    For me I think what weighs the most is the fact that Clemens is releasing statements through his agent and his lawyers. If my career was on the line and my reputation had been tarnished I would have called a press conference and dealt with the matter personally.
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    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    It's time for Clemens to take his medicine.

  13. #12
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    He says Brian McNamee "repeatedly denied thse current claims, including in June of this year when he was first contacted by federal investigators." The release states that McNamee "changed his story under the threat of federal criminal prosecution."

    "I am at a total loss to understand how it is proper for federal prosecutorial authorities to use the threat of criminal prosecution to help in a private business investigation," said Clemens attorney Rusty Hardin.
    Yea, that type of tactic is unprecedented. Who ever heard of such a thing? And "private business investigations" always have a 400+ report and presser to publicize said reports also. That is some good lawyering there.

    I believe Roger, sort of like he took his bow to "retire" one time, took gifts and all...

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Yea, that type of tactic is unprecedented. Who ever heard of such a thing? And "private business investigations" always have a 400+ report and presser to publicize said reports also. That is some good lawyering there.

    I believe Roger, sort of like he took his bow to "retire" one time, took gifts and all...
    To play devil's advocate here, the Mitchell investigation was, in fact, a "private business investigation". It was not a prosecutorial endeavor; not an investigation by law enforcement. It was a study commissioned by a private business enterprise into the actions of its employees. The fact that the findings came to 400 pages or that there was a public press conference doesn't change that fact.

    I'm not an attorney, but I found Donald Fehr's statements, the brief bit I heard, very interesting. While the masses of hardcore baseball fans are calling for blood, he reminded folks that there are contractual realities involved in the relationship between the players and management. Likewise, he noted (correctly, I think), that those agreements between the union and management are governed by federal labor law. I think it was shortsighted of MLB not to have permitted the union an advance look, just as they had. I'll bet donuts to a dollar that Fehr would have bothered to have read it prior to a press conference.

    Ultimately, how do we decide "winners" and "losers". Frankly, I'd like to figure out how to take a deep breath, pull back, and try to take a long term look at the problem and its impact on the historical record of the game. There are a number of folks here on RZ who are baseball historians. I think ultimately we'll need to take the long historical approach. Like we had a "deadball" era or a time when now illegal pitches were still permitted, the late 80's up until about now will be the "Steroids" era.

    I can't say without a lot of study of the law and the rules and the agreements between the various parties as to what was "illegal", what was "cheating". I just don't have the facts in front of me. I'm not saying those might not be valid conclusions, I don't have the expertise to know that.
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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    Rocket really needs to get a new cell phone carrier.

    I'm sure he was on the phone with his wife saying "Honey, do I want to let this trainer stick this needle in my butt? Just say no, and I won't do it..... Honey......Honey..... It's OK guys, she so happy she's speechless."
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  16. #15
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Is Bonds today's big winner?

    Winner? I don't think anyone is a winner after this report.

    But it does establish and fill out the context of the times for Bonds and what he did much more.

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