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Thread: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

  1. #16
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Count me out for doing boston a favor.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by summerplight View Post
    I know I'm one of the few. But anybody else want on the Coco Crisp bandwagon? Boston seems willing to part with him.
    Cameron would not cost talent and is a better hitter. Why?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  4. #18
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Cameron K'd 160 times last year. Pencil him into a lineup with Dunn, and an aggressive hitter like Phillips and you have a recipe for a lot of men left on base. Keep in mind Jay Bruce struck out 135 times last year and those numbers would seem to go up in his first big league season. Cameron will give the reds more run production but Crisp plays better defense which will save runs considering who will be starting in the corners.

  5. #19
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by summerplight View Post
    Cameron K'd 160 times last year. Pencil him into a lineup with Dunn, and an aggressive hitter like Phillips and you have a recipe for a lot of men left on base. Keep in mind Jay Bruce struck out 135 times last year and those numbers would seem to go up in his first big league season. Cameron will give the reds more run production but Crisp plays better defense which will save runs considering who will be starting in the corners.
    Strikeouts don't matter. They have nothing to do with leaving men on base-they just replace other types of outs. Second point-so Crisp plays better defense and Cameron is a better hitter-that evens itself out. But Crisp would cost talent in a trade. Plus, Crisp bats left-handed while Cameron is a righty...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  6. #20
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Me thinks the stage is set for Jay Bruce to show he is ready to be the starting CF for the Reds in "08 and many years beyond. The ball is in his court. ST will hopefully show if he is up to the task. Let's see how he does from say, 3/10 thru 3/25, when he will be facing front-liners seriously working on "getting ready" for the up-coming season.

  7. #21
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Actually he hits from both sides of the plate. He's not the threat Cameron is against lefties, but he did hit 270 vs them last year. And as for the argument that strikeouts don't matter, what was all the fuss over the fact that Adam Dunn hadn't had a Sac Fly for so long then? Or say a man is on first with one out and the hitter fails to advance him? You know that argument is wrong. I would say that strikeouts are the reason that Adam Dunn drives in 100-105 a year while hitting 40 homers, while guys like Miguel Cabrera can drive in 115 a year simply because he can sacrifice some power and still be a better player.

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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by summerplight View Post
    Actually he hits from both sides of the plate. He's not the threat Cameron is against lefties, but he did hit 270 vs them last year. And as for the argument that strikeouts don't matter, what was all the fuss over the fact that Adam Dunn hadn't had a Sac Fly for so long then? Or say a man is on first with one out and the hitter fails to advance him? You know that argument is wrong. I would say that strikeouts are the reason that Adam Dunn drives in 100-105 a year while hitting 40 homers, while guys like Miguel Cabrera can drive in 115 a year simply because he can sacrifice some power and still be a better player.
    I don't care how much Adam Dunn strikes out. I would say that if he strikes out with a runner on first that he didn't GIDP so it really doesn't matter. I would say that the reason he doesn't get more RBI's is his batting average-which by the way has nothing to do with strikeouts...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  9. #23
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I don't care how much Adam Dunn strikes out. I would say that if he strikes out with a runner on first that he didn't GIDP so it really doesn't matter. I would say that the reason he doesn't get more RBI's is his batting average-which by the way has nothing to do with strikeouts...
    Well does failing to use the whole field have anything to do with batting average? Particularly when the defense is giving you half the infield? I'd argue that a hitters approach has to do with strikeouts, batting average, and RBI's.
    Last edited by Orenda; 12-21-2007 at 10:18 PM.

  10. #24
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Dunn has a problem with knowing when to swing. Hes almost too patient some times. If he would just take some chances at the plate he could be a real MVP candidate some day. thread starting to get derailed....

  11. #25
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Strikeouts don't matter. They have nothing to do with leaving men on base-they just replace other types of outs.
    K's matter. With a runner on 3rd and 1 out...the batter K's runner left on 3rd...or the batter hits a fly ball (or even a ground ball to a non-corner infield spot) and the runner scores.

    K's matter.

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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6-4-3 View Post
    K's matter. With a runner on 3rd and 1 out...the batter K's runner left on 3rd...or the batter hits a fly ball (or even a ground ball to a non-corner infield spot) and the runner scores.

    K's matter.
    Okay. This thread is determined to get sidetracked, and I'm just going to go with it.

    The situation you speak of occurred with Dunn 27 times last season. That's it. (Incidentally, though it means nothing, he killed to the tune of a .946 OPS in that situation.)

    Your analysis also assumes a high success rate. Its not that easy to control what the ball does.

    Lastly, you should rarely be going to the plate intending to make a certain kind of out. The objective is to not make outs.
    FIRE DUSTY BAKER

    ADOPT THIS SIGNATURE IN SOLIDARITY!!!

  13. #27
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    You can have 15 sac flies and yr and 15 DP's, and I'll take my walks and strikeouts...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  14. #28
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Your analysis also assumes a high success rate. Its not that easy to control what the ball does.

    Lastly, you should rarely be going to the plate intending to make a certain kind of out. The objective is to not make outs.
    I didn't say that the hitter attempted to make that kind of out. The goal should be to get a hit. However, a lot can be said for making contact. If the hitter simply puts the ball in play, the runner will score a good % of the time.

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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6-4-3 View Post
    I didn't say that the hitter attempted to make that kind of out. The goal should be to get a hit. However, a lot can be said for making contact. If the hitter simply puts the ball in play, the runner will score a good % of the time.
    Double plays negatives = contact driving in runs positives

    not very complex...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  16. #30
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    Re: Does that mean we sign Cameron?

    Double plays negatives = contact driving in runs positives

    not very complex...
    How is a batter going to hit into a double play by making contact when there is 1 out and a runner on 3rd?


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