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Thread: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

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  1. #1
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    So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Where do Edinson Volquez & Daniel Herrera fit in our prospect list?

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    No where.

    Volquez is not eligible and Herrera has about no chance of ever stepping on a major league field short of someones MLB and AAA bullpen catching SARS.

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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    No where.

    Volquez is not eligible and Herrera has about no chance of ever stepping on a major league field short of someones MLB and AAA bullpen catching SARS.
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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Herrera has about no chance of ever stepping on a major league field short of someones MLB and AAA bullpen catching SARS.
    I'm gonna have to disagree with this as well. If he was 28, I'd agree. But teams do see something in him, and honestly, he is the perfect example of a Sept call up on a bad team. Hopefully that isn't the Reds (bad team), but at some point, someone is going to test his stuff, and maybe just out of curiosity. If he continues to be successful in the Minors, I would have no problem giving him a shot if there was a need. Way to many mediocre relievers see time in the Majors just because there is a need. I'm not saying he will be successful, but he will get a shot.

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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    I'm gonna have to disagree with this as well. If he was 28, I'd agree. But teams do see something in him, and honestly, he is the perfect example of a Sept call up on a bad team. Hopefully that isn't the Reds (bad team), but at some point, someone is going to test his stuff, and maybe just out of curiosity. If he continues to be successful in the Minors, I would have no problem giving him a shot if there was a need. Way to many mediocre relievers see time in the Majors just because there is a need. I'm not saying he will be successful, but he will get a shot.
    I agree-so long as he progresses his dominance to AAA...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    One thought here on Herrera. The Red's pen has potential to have a lot of hard throwers down the road. Cordero, Burton, Pelland, Roenicke, maybe one of the starter trio of Cueto, Bailey or Volquez may see time in the pen and even Coffey all live off the hard stuff. A soft tossing lefty with a trick pitch might be just the kind of different look that can keep hitters off balance and make all the others even more effective.

    Good bullpens are built with good pitchers first and foremost, but how the pieces fit together and compliment each other is a factor in their effectiveness. Herrera could be just the guy to mess with the opposition's timing ahead of the hard throwers. I have to think its a factor in why WK would have wanted him ahead of any number of low level prospects that could have been the throw-in in this deal.
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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    One thought here on Herrera. The Red's pen has potential to have a lot of hard throwers down the road. Cordero, Burton, Pelland, Roenicke, maybe one of the starter trio of Cueto, Bailey or Volquez may see time in the pen and even Coffey all live off the hard stuff. A soft tossing lefty with a trick pitch might be just the kind of different look that can keep hitters off balance and make all the others even more effective.

    Good bullpens are built with good pitchers first and foremost, but how the pieces fit together and compliment each other is a factor in their effectiveness. Herrera could be just the guy to mess with the opposition's timing ahead of the hard throwers. I have to think its a factor in why WK would have wanted him ahead of any number of low level prospects that could have been the throw-in in this deal.
    Very savvy commentary, mth.
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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    If Volquez was a prospect, how would you rank Him, Bailey and Cueto?

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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Does this make Danny Dorn any more valuable to the organization? The outfield could thin out quickly in a year depending on who is acquired.

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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Doug,

    I've come to really trust your insight, and you do a great job with your site. It has become a daily read of mine.
    Now that I have gotten the "butt" kissing out of the way , I have to respectfully disagree with your evaluation of Herrera. I have been taught to believe that their is no correct way that a pitcher must get outs. Guys like Chad Bradford, Chris Hammond, and Jon Coutlangus among others have demonstrated this (Moneyball rationale). Clearly, he can strike out guys in AA, and I see no reason why he can't continue to strike out a good rate in the majors. Plus, he's only 23. Sure, he may not be great, but why can't he be at least an effective LOOGY? It seems that even if he only stirkes out around 7 per 9 IP in MLB, he gets enough ground balls to pitch to contact. Also, if he is only coming in to face a couple of batters per appearance, why can't his different style be effective, at least for a couple of years?
    You know more than me, so please tell me why I'm wrong
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Doug,

    I've come to really trust your insight, and you do a great job with your site. It has become a daily read of mine.
    Now that I have gotten the "butt" kissing out of the way , I have to respectfully disagree with your evaluation of Herrera. I have been taught to believe that their is no correct way that a pitcher must get outs. Guys like Chad Bradford, Chris Hammond, and Jon Coutlangus among others have demonstrated this (Moneyball rationale). Clearly, he can strike out guys in AA, and I see no reason why he can't continue to strike out a good rate in the majors. Plus, he's only 23. Sure, he may not be great, but why can't he be at least an effective LOOGY? It seems that even if he only stirkes out around 7 per 9 IP in MLB, he gets enough ground balls to pitch to contact. Also, if he is only coming in to face a couple of batters per appearance, why can't his different style be effective, at least for a couple of years?
    You know more than me, so please tell me why I'm wrong
    I just don't think many teams are going to give a guy like him a chance because they just don't see him able to get major league hitters out with a junk fastball and a trick pitch. If teams don't give him that chance, which I doubt they will, then his prospect status isn't very good.

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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I just don't think many teams are going to give a guy like him a chance because they just don't see him able to get major league hitters out with a junk fastball and a trick pitch. If teams don't give him that chance, which I doubt they will, then his prospect status isn't very good.
    If he repeats his 2007 preformance in AAA, he better get a chance!
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I just don't think many teams are going to give a guy like him a chance because they just don't see him able to get major league hitters out with a junk fastball and a trick pitch. If teams don't give him that chance, which I doubt they will, then his prospect status isn't very good.
    I don't know anything about this guy, but judging by his reported velocity and your take on him, I have one critical question. If he is a junkball pitcher with a "trick pitch", Why in the world do you waste your time on him? If Carlos Guevara was not the type of pitcher this organization wanted around why waste a roster spot and development time on some Chris Hammond lite? I'd rather take a shot on a failed toolsy guy, or another converted outfielder/pitcher type.

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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Quote Originally Posted by summerplight View Post
    I don't know anything about this guy, but judging by his reported velocity and your take on him, I have one critical question. If he is a junkball pitcher with a "trick pitch", Why in the world do you waste your time on him? If Carlos Guevara was not the type of pitcher this organization wanted around why waste a roster spot and development time on some Chris Hammond lite? I'd rather take a shot on a failed toolsy guy, or another converted outfielder/pitcher type.
    Even AA and AAA need players. Not every guy can be a true prospect. The Lookouts still need a guy that can close a game out for them. Wins and success are still very important to those players and that team. Same for the Bats, and SaraReds and Dragons.

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    Re: So, after the Hamilton trade ...

    Quote Originally Posted by summerplight View Post
    Does this make Danny Dorn any more valuable to the organization? The outfield could thin out quickly in a year depending on who is acquired.
    I think the Reds don't say much about Dorn, because as John Sickels evaluated him, "Major Sleeper". He has snuck under a lot of radars due to his serious shoulder injury that he has seemingly totally recovered from. Seems people don't remember that after a stellar season at Billings, he skipped low A, going directly to high A, ending up at AA where he tore it up. That to me is a 3 level jump in 1 year. He will soon be major trade bait, or playing in the Reds outfield.


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