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Thread: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

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    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    I am just curious because I really felt like he looked fatigued in late May-early June and suspect he was tired after playing virtually an entire calendar year of baseball. I know it is not fashionable to break down a player's swing these days, but he holds his hands pretty high and the mechanics of his swing seem to require a great deal of strength to respond to pitch recognition and generate bat speed. Edwin ended up with a nice year offensively thanks to what he did in the second half. With so few right handed hitters in this lineup, he would seem to be a catalyst for the success of this offense.

    I know Latin players often have a sense of duty or loyalty about participating in winter ball, but I really felt like Edwin would have been better served in 2007 if he had more of a break coming into the season. Does anyone know if he is taking the winter off this year?

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Santo Alcala View Post
    I am just curious because I really felt like he looked fatigued in late May-early June and suspect he was tired after playing virtually an entire calendar year of baseball. I know it is not fashionable to break down a player's swing these days, but he holds his hands pretty high and the mechanics of his swing seem to require a great deal of strength to respond to pitch recognition and generate bat speed. Edwin ended up with a nice year offensively thanks to what he did in the second half. With so few right handed hitters in this lineup, he would seem to be a catalyst for the success of this offense.

    I know Latin players often have a sense of duty or loyalty about participating in winter ball, but I really felt like Edwin would have been better served in 2007 if he had more of a break coming into the season. Does anyone know if he is taking the winter off this year?
    Hmm, interesting observation. But I don't believe he is, at least I haven't heard anything on that front yet.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?


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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Ooops, my bad SA! Guess I should check up on those things 1st before I open my mouth.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

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    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Ooops, my bad SA! Guess I should check up on those things 1st before I open my mouth.
    Well, I guess we'll see how that turns out. Pitchers are allowed a "dead arm" grace period. I think it comes during spring training for some, and I think others suffer it in the dog days of August. Some seem to revisit it more than once a season. But, swinging a baseball bat 30-50 times a day 250 days a year can take a toll as well, even on a young man not under the influence of steroids. Who knows if the Reds are concerned about such things...
    Last edited by Phhhl; 12-23-2007 at 01:47 AM.

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    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    even with the heavy winter workload guess who was the official team leader in hitting avg for the Reds in 2007?

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=cin


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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    Quote Originally Posted by icehole3 View Post
    even with the heavy winter workload guess who was the official team leader in hitting avg for the Reds in 2007?

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=cin


    I hope nobody is arguing that EE had a good offensive year in 2007. He had 42 extra base hits in 500 at bats with a slugging percentage of .436. To put that number in context, the Reds just traded a guy whose slugging percentage was .554. EE's OPS was under .800.

    He did improve defensively and hit better at the end of the season.

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    Member icehole3's Avatar
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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    He did improve defensively and hit better at the end of the season.
    I agree

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I hope nobody is arguing that EE had a good offensive year in 2007. .
    If EE didn't have a good offensive year, then neither did everyone's All American Brandon Phillips.


    BP-288 .331 .485 .816 RC/27-5.32
    EE-289 .356 .438 .794 RC/27-5.98
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    If EE didn't have a good offensive year, then neither did everyone's All American Brandon Phillips.


    BP-288 .331 .485 .816 RC/27-5.32
    EE-289 .356 .438 .794 RC/27-5.98
    Everybody has favorite numbers.

    Phillips had 30 homers, 92 RBIs, 32 stolen bases, scored 107 runs. Phillips slugged .485. Phillips had 62 extra base hits.

    EE had 16 homers, 76RBIs, 8 stolen bases, and scored 66 runs.EE slugged .438. EE had 42 extra base hits. EE did have fewer at bats.

    The batting averages were the same. EE was better at OBP, .356 to .331.

    And EE's numbers were appreciably worse until the end of the season, which for the Reds was extended "garbage time" since they were out of the race. Also, as the only two major righty hitters in the lineup, Phillips feasted on lefty pitching, EE did not.

    Folks can draw their own conclusions.
    Last edited by Kc61; 12-23-2007 at 09:10 AM.

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Everybody has favorite numbers.

    Phillips had 30 homers, 92 RBIs, 32 stolen bases, scored 107 runs. Phillips slugged .485. Phillips had 62 extra base hits.

    EE had 16 homers, 76RBIs, 8 stolen bases, and scored 66 runs.EE slugged .438. EE had 42 extra base hits. EE did have fewer at bats.

    The batting averages were the same. EE was better at OBP, .356 to .331.

    And EE's numbers were appreciably worse until the end of the season, which for the Reds was extended "garbage time" since they were out of the race. Also, as the only two major righty hitters in the lineup, Phillips feasted on lefty pitching, EE did not.

    Folks can draw their own conclusions.


    The reason I used rate stats is that BP had nearly 150 more TPA then EE. So, yeah, BP's counting stats were higher.

    Look at their Runs Created stats. BP created 99 run vs EE's 80. They both created right at 0.14 runs per Plate Appearance. They had essentially the same season, they just got there differently.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  13. #12
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    I've always believed in Edwin.

    He got off to a bad start in 2007, I think he put too much pressure on himself to pull out of his slump. It happens to the best of 'em.

    Don't know for sure but EE might feel a little more confident with Jerry Narron out of the picture. Let's hope he gets a better break out of the gate in 2008.

  14. #13
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    A very large portion of BP's great season was a function of oppotunity.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: Is Encarnacion Playing Winter Ball Again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    I've always believed in Edwin.

    He got off to a bad start in 2007, I think he put too much pressure on himself to pull out of his slump. It happens to the best of 'em.

    Don't know for sure but EE might feel a little more confident with Jerry Narron out of the picture. Let's hope he gets a better break out of the gate in 2008.
    Bottom line of my original post is that I am still extremely high on Eddie E too. As a for instance, I am not sure Votto is going to have a better career than Edwin when all is done. Maybe it's a reach, but he reminds me of Doggy. With his natural ability to recognize pitches, the fact that he bats right handed, AND his penchant for identifying fasballs in hitter counts (ie. rbi situations), he remains one of the most critical hitters on this team moving forward. Some seem to want to expend him in any and every deal that raises it's hand, but I consider him an extremely undervalued commodity across the league. I just hope that Krivsky never considers him a "throw in" in any deal moving forward. As several have noted in this thread, he is progressing nicely.
    Last edited by Phhhl; 12-25-2007 at 09:13 PM.


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