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View Poll Results: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

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  • Yes

    38 36.89%
  • No

    10 9.71%
  • He should be further evaluated this season

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Thread: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

  1. #76
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Man.

    This board is so impulsive. We haven't even see what the result of the Hamilton trade is, and already we want to extend his contract. Shades of how Krivsky works when deciding to extend Coffee or giving Cromier a second year.

    Since there's no one out there who could make a difference or do better than WK, I can't see replacing him, but granting him an extention right now given no one else wants him is crazy.

    He's had as many bad moves as good moves. We are a forgetful bunch, and I'd rather look at how the team has improved in wins and losses rather than trades that look like they may work out on paper. If the team has another losing season, we might as well have Mickey Mouse as GM because no improvement will have been seen on Krivsky's watch.

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  3. #77
    You're being very UnDude. sonny's Avatar
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    This coming from the most critical of Wayne.

    Valid point though, we as fans need to take deep breath, relax and see where we are come October.
    Witty signature.

  4. #78
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by sonny View Post
    This coming from the most critical of Wayne.

    Valid point though, we as fans need to take deep breath, relax and see where we are come October.
    Fair enough.

    I've actually mellowed quite a bit on Wayne mainly because he has shown he can make moves and they are much better than earlier in his tenure. I want to see what it looks like after the season, though. So far, i haven't seen much improvement in wins and losses for his works. You can have the best team on paper, but if you still lose more than you win or just go .500 when the other seasons were losing, you haven't improved the club much.

    If the team was that horrible before Wayne came (the "mess" he inherited), it hasn't been that much better since he came. IMO, that's how you really judge a GM. So, like you said, let's see what happens.

  5. #79
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    True, the bottom line is winning percentage, but given what Krivsky inherited, to expect him to build a team that can consistently win within a span of two years is unfair. Jim Bowden, Dan O'Brien, etc. had consistently taken steps backwards with the organization. There was arguably a decade or so consisting of bad decisions that set the team back.

    What I can tell is that Wayne Krivsky is good at taking a horrible organization and quickly turning it into an average organization. It won't be until the next year or two that we can see if he can take an average organization and turn it into a great organization. For me, the question is, "Do we extend the contract of someone who has done a great job of meeting our short-term goals, or do we wait to see if he can meet our long-term goals before we reward him?"
    Actually, after Bowden, the Reds began making steps up. From the firesale to today.

    But the inconsistant management has not made it a fast rise.

  6. #80
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    True, the bottom line is winning percentage, but given what Krivsky inherited, to expect him to build a team that can consistently win within a span of two years is unfair.
    Wayne Krivsky was handed a team that produced a 75-87 Pythag record in 2005. Krivsky helmed a 2006 version that produced a 76-86 Pythag and then went on to give us a 2007 version that projected a 75-87 Pythag record. Two years after he inherited O'Brien's MLB unit, we've seen no improvement.

    So far, Krivsky's been borrowing from Peter to pay for Paul in the offense/pitching swaps and he hasn't been drafting anyone who projects to help over the short term. Barring a trade for an established high-level starter, we're currently holding out hope that the 2008 version of the Reds will be bolstered by Edinson Volquez (with a projected decrease in offensive production), a high-dollar FA signing (Cordero) and a bunch of players drafted by the prior GM.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  7. #81
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    I've been hard on Wayne Krivsky in the past for some of his moves (I hated the Pena-for-Arroyo deal at first), but as I stated in my original post, I've been impressed with what he has accomplished in the last year. I know the results on the field aren't there yet, but I think Krivsky has this team heading in the right direction. With the extensions of Arroyo and Harang, and the signing of Cordero and acquisition of Edinson Volquez, I think this team is set up to compete this year and especially 2009 and beyond that. I'm just glad to have a GM who seems to have a plan, unlike our past general managers.

    I'd like to see him further evaluated this season but ultimately I hope he receives a one or two year extension unless he does something really stupid in the near future.

  8. #82
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Which goes back to the point made a few pages back -- although there is no market pressure to extend Krivsky right now, if you generally agree with the direction of the ballclub and the decisions he is making, it makes sense to give him a vote of financial confidence.

    If he thinks he's on the hot seat this year, it might press him into focusing solely on short-term at the expense of the long term. I certainly don't want to see a total talent mortgage at the deadline because Krivsky thinks he needs to put a .500 or sub-.500 team over the top with 2 or 3 marginal acquisitions and "save" his job.

    The amount you'd have to pay Krivsky (or any executive) is minor compared to baseball talent, and cutting on a GM's contract midway through doesn't represent a huge burden on the bottom line. So, really, a 2-3 year extension really doesn't hurt the team that much and might actually help in the long-run.
    Those are excellent points Caveat. I do believe that this FO (Krivsky) has a building plan that has become more evident to everyone during this off-season. And that is, while he's trying to improve this team and make/explore acquisitions, he is not going to do so at the expense of those young top prospects who are at or near the ML level, and in which they believe will be strong contributors to this franchise for the next several years. And I came to that conclusion when I read that they had inquired about Haren, the A's wanted Cueto, and WK refused. That tells me that WK regards our prospects very highly.

    We traded Hamilton; but I really don't know, due to his age and years out of baseball, if one could consider him a prospect. And of all the "prospects" that we possess - Hamilton was the most likely one that I'd have no problem trading.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  9. #83
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Wayne Krivsky was handed a team that produced a 75-87 Pythag record in 2005. Krivsky helmed a 2006 version that produced a 76-86 Pythag and then went on to give us a 2007 version that projected a 75-87 Pythag record. Two years after he inherited O'Brien's MLB unit, we've seen no improvement.

    So far, Krivsky's been borrowing from Peter to pay for Paul in the offense/pitching swaps and he hasn't been drafting anyone who projects to help over the short term. Barring a trade for an established high-level starter, we're currently holding out hope that the 2008 version of the Reds will be bolstered by Edinson Volquez (with a projected decrease in offensive production), a high-dollar FA signing (Cordero) and a bunch of players drafted by the prior GM.
    True, as far as the pythagorean record goes, the Reds haven't improved much, but I look at it in the context of what Wayne Krivsky inherited when he took the job. The reason the Reds won as many games in 2005 as they did was due to getting good/decent numbers from Jason LaRue, Sean Casey, Rich Aurilia, Joe Randa, Felipe Lopez, Wily Mo Pena, Brandon Claussen, Kent Mercker, etc.

    Look at those guys and tell me how many of them you still wish were on the team heading into 2007 or 2008. You'd probably want none of them. The point I'm trying to make is that the Reds organization was a ticking time bomb, and Wayne Krivsky arrived just moments before the bomb went off. He cleaned house and got rid of the guys who could have helped in the short term but weren't part of the long-term solution. If DanO or JimBo were still around, so would be a lot of the players named above. Instead of the team being full of older guys with one-year contracts, there is now a group of players who appear to be able to produce at a high level both now and later.

  10. #84
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    while he's trying to improve this team and make/explore acquisitions, he is not going to do so at the expense of those young top prospects who are at or near the ML level, and in which they believe will be strong contributors to this franchise for the next several years. And I came to that conclusion when I read that they had inquired about Haren, the A's wanted Cueto, and WK refused. That tells me that WK regards our prospects very highly.

    decent reason to fire WK immediately, and certainly a great reason not to extend him right away. He's operating as if he expects to be here for a while.

  11. #85
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    decent reason to fire WK immediately, and certainly a great reason not to extend him right away. He's operating as if he expects to be here for a while.
    Not necessarily. Maybe he values a farm system, and it's prospects, in a different way then simply trade fodder.

    Cast must be on board with WK's plan and decisions concerning the handling of their prospects.

    Fire WK. You still can't fire the owner.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  12. #86
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Not necessarily.
    necessarily. If WK really felt as though he were in imminent danger of losing his job, then we are now proud owners of Bedard or Haren. instead, WK is operating on a longer-term plan. I'm not sure that's a good thing, but it's the way that it is.


    if not-- if WK really thinks that his job is in jeopardy and didn't add Haren in spite of that -- then he is simply foolishly stubborn in the way that Bowden was. That would be troubling. You wouldn't want to keep that around.

  13. #87
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    necessarily. If WK really felt as though he were in imminent danger of losing his job, then we are now proud owners of Bedard or Haren. instead, WK is operating on a longer-term plan. I'm not sure that's a good thing, but it's the way that it is.
    Or maybe he foolishly values the franchise's longterm viabilty above his own?


    if WK really thinks that his job is in jeopardy and didn't add Haren in spite of that -- then he is simply foolishly stubborn in the way that Bowden was. That would be troubling. You wouldn't want to keep that around.
    But who says that WK thinks that? That his job is in jeopardy?

    Maybe the reason he feels his job is not in imminent danger, and is operating the way he has, is because Cast & company have privately given him that vote of confidence?

    And Bowden was many things; but foolishly stubborn wasn't one of them IMO.
    Last edited by GAC; 12-30-2007 at 09:11 AM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  14. #88
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Wayne Krivsky was handed a team that produced a 75-87 Pythag record in 2005. Krivsky helmed a 2006 version that produced a 76-86 Pythag and then went on to give us a 2007 version that projected a 75-87 Pythag record. Two years after he inherited O'Brien's MLB unit, we've seen no improvement.

    So far, Krivsky's been borrowing from Peter to pay for Paul in the offense/pitching swaps and he hasn't been drafting anyone who projects to help over the short term. Barring a trade for an established high-level starter, we're currently holding out hope that the 2008 version of the Reds will be bolstered by Edinson Volquez (with a projected decrease in offensive production), a high-dollar FA signing (Cordero) and a bunch of players drafted by the prior GM.
    100% correct.

    If there is still no improvement this year, Krivsky has zero excuse and should be looking for work.

  15. #89
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Maybe the reason he feels his job is not in imminent danger, and is operating the way he has, is because Cast & company have privately given him that vote of confidence?.
    exactly right

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Bowden was many things; but foolishly stubborn wasn't one of them IMO
    exactly wrong

  16. #90
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    Re: Should Wayne Krivsky's contract be extended?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    So far, Krivsky's been borrowing from Peter to pay for Paul in the offense/pitching swaps and he hasn't been drafting anyone who projects to help over the short term. Barring a trade for an established high-level starter, we're currently holding out hope that the 2008 version of the Reds will be bolstered by Edinson Volquez (with a projected decrease in offensive production), a high-dollar FA signing (Cordero) and a bunch of players drafted by the prior GM.
    What you state is all true Kori. But I wanted to emphasize the highlighted parts above.....

    No one drafts to help you in the short term.

    And it shouldn't be interpreted as a "knock" on WK for simply taking advantage of those players drafted by the previous GM(s), and who have now worked their way (progressed) through the system and may prove to be ML ready.

    Hypothetically speaking, lets say WK is gone, yet 2-3 years down the road the next GM is taking advantage of some of those kids WK drafted over the last 2 years and are showing success.

    That's been my whole "thing" with WK. Not so much that he has gone out and acquired a Womack, Castro, or Conine, as some sort of "fillers"; but how his drafts/ rebuilding the farm system is going to turn out.

    And that is something that IMHO is too early to evaluate on WK. I'm no expert, by no means, on how good/bad his drafts have been over the last 2 years. Others on here are far more qualified then I, and I'm at there "mercy" when it comes to evaluation and critiquing those kids. But from what I've read from some of them, some of those kids drafted by WK are progressing over the last year, and could prove to be helpful.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations


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