Turn Off Ads?
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Making a List

  1. #1
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    41,607

    Making a List

    “Our pitching staff is a conspiracy of ifs.”

    Branch Rickey

    “Fastball, curveball, changeup. He’s 6-2, athletic with a live arm. He’s from the Dominican Republic and his idol is Pedro Martinez. He’s got charisma, animation. He’s got a fastball, 92-94, but can go get 97. He’s got a hard breaking ball that acts like a slurve at times. “

    Wayne Krivsky on Edinson Volquez who they obtained for Josh Hamilton

    “Nobody likes to hear it, because it’s dull, but the reason you win or lose is darn near always the same - pitching.”

    Earl Weaver


    It’s true we often hear the old saying above, or an amalgamation of it, and in turn it’s true that we often just shrug it off as being more or less full of air… especially in this day and age of pure offense.

    Since the game was essentially created for the batter to hit the ball (the real battle was between the bare handed fielders and the batter) the game has always been centered around the batter and his attempt to successfully obtain a hit or get on base. The pitcher was the one who always had to change, first he had to throw it underhand and in the spot the batter called for, the rules makes shaped his box, increased the distance he had to throw, changed the height of the strike zone as well as the area in which the hurler had to throw from. In short the game has and always will be looking for a perfect balance, and in the eyes of the rules makers they tend to think that balance means weighted toward the offensive side of the ledger.

    This balance is not in line, it’s askew the game is tilted to the offensive side, we know this… or do we?

    Caution: I’m going to get unscientific here, not ridiculous, but not exactly Voros Mcrackin either.

    An example of our current games skewed offensive numbers is found in the number of times a player has hit forty or more home runs in a season and its place in the history of the game.

    This is the type of thing that affects what we see on the field and the relationship it has to our understanding of the games past.

    I’m just going to kick around some lists and some of the thoughts that I get from them, not always earth shattering, or insightful, but it helps me understand (partially) the way some folks have looked at the game since it exploded into the national scene.

    We’ll start with the 1876 season, the year of the Battle of Little Big Horn and the first year in the National League, from that date we’ll note that 44 years later on the eve of the 1920 season there were exactly 99 players in major league history who had at least 40 home runs in their CAREER. Only ten of them had at least 100 in their career.

    If you sort the players by at bats number 99 just happened to be the biggest name on the list, his name?

    Babe Ruth… who had 49 home runs and in only 1110 at bats.

    Here’s the 100 HR Club

    Code:
    HOMERUNS                        HR       AB
    1    Roger Connor                138     7794
    2    Sam Thompson                127     5984
    3    Harry Stovey                122     6138
    T4   Gavvy Cravath               118     3906
    T4   Jimmy Ryan                  118     8164
    T6   Hugh Duffy                  106     7042
    T6   Mike Tiernan                106     5906
    T6   Dan Brouthers               106     6711
    T9   Honus Wagner                101    10430
    T9   Ed Delahanty                101     7505
    The next season that guy at #99 on that aforementioned 40 HR or better list jumped to #9, with 103 career home runs.

    This was the first time anybody ever hit 30 Homes runs in a season as well as 40 and 50.

    Now, if we are to look at the number of players who achieved 40 home runs in a season between 1921-1968 (Pre Division Era)we’ll see exactly 100 players.

    This is their HR % that season they got 40 home runs.

    Code:
    HR%                           YEAR     HR%      HR
    1    Babe Ruth                1927    11.11       60
    2    Babe Ruth                1921    10.93       59
    3    Mickey Mantle            1961    10.51       54
    4    Hank Greenberg           1938    10.43       58
    5    Roger Maris              1961    10.34       61
    6    Babe Ruth                1928    10.07       54
    7    Jimmie Foxx              1932     9.91       58
    8    Ralph Kiner              1949     9.84       54
    9    Mickey Mantle            1956     9.76       52
    10   Hack Wilson              1930     9.57       56
    11   Babe Ruth                1926     9.49       47
    12   Jim Gentile              1961     9.47       46
    13   Babe Ruth                1930     9.46       49
    14   Willie Mays              1965     9.32       52
    15   Babe Ruth                1929     9.22       46
    16   Ralph Kiner              1947     9.03       51
    17   Babe Ruth                1932     8.97       41
    18   Jimmie Foxx              1938     8.85       50
    19   Willie Mays              1955     8.79       51
    20   Harmon Killebrew         1963     8.74       45
    21   Johnny Mize              1947     8.70       51
    T22  Babe Ruth                1924     8.70       46
    T22  Harmon Killebrew         1962     8.70       48
    24   Babe Ruth                1931     8.61       46
    25   Ralph Kiner              1950     8.59       47
    26   Ted Kluszewski           1954     8.55       49
    27   Frank Robinson           1966     8.51       49
    28   Harmon Killebrew         1961     8.50       46
    29   Harmon Killebrew         1964     8.49       49
    T30  Lou Gehrig               1936     8.46       49
    T30  Lou Gehrig               1934     8.46       49
    32   Hank Greenberg           1946     8.41       44
    33   Eddie Mathews            1954     8.40       40
    34   Rocky Colavito           1958     8.38       41
    35   Jimmie Foxx              1933     8.38       48
    36   Eddie Mathews            1955     8.22       41
    37   Jimmie Foxx              1934     8.16       44
    38   Willie Mays              1964     8.13       47
    39   Eddie Mathews            1953     8.12       47
    40   Mickey Mantle            1958     8.09       42
    41   Lou Gehrig               1927     8.05       47
    42   Harmon Killebrew         1967     8.04       44
    43   Duke Snider              1956     7.93       43
    44   Ralph Kiner              1951     7.91       42
    45   Roy Campanella           1953     7.90       41
    46   Willie Mays              1962     7.89       49
    47   Hank Sauer               1954     7.88       41
    48   Duke Snider              1957     7.87       40
    49   Orlando Cepeda           1961     7.86       46
    50   Babe Ruth                1923     7.85       41
    51   Duke Snider              1955     7.81       42
    52   Willie McCovey           1963     7.80       44
    53   Eddie Mathews            1959     7.74       46
    54   Rocky Colavito           1961     7.72       45
    55   Mel Ott                  1929     7.71       42
    56   Harmon Killebrew         1959     7.69       42
    57   Ted Kluszewski           1955     7.68       47
    T58  Norm Cash                1961     7.66       41
    T58  Cy Williams              1923     7.66       41
    60   Ernie Banks              1959     7.64       45
    61   Dick Allen               1966     7.63       40
    62   Ernie Banks              1958     7.62       47
    63   Hank Aaron               1962     7.60       45
    64   Carl Yastrzemski         1967     7.60       44
    65   Ted Williams             1949     7.60       43
    66   Mickey Mantle            1960     7.59       40
    67   Gus Zernial              1953     7.55       42
    68   Lou Gehrig               1931     7.43       46
    69   Johnny Mize              1940     7.43       43
    70   Joe DiMaggio             1937     7.41       46
    71   Ernie Banks              1955     7.38       44
    72   Frank Howard             1968     7.36       44
    73   Roy Sievers              1957     7.34       42
    74   Hank Aaron               1966     7.30       44
    75   Willie Mays              1954     7.26       41
    76   Gil Hodges               1954     7.25       42
    77   Ernie Banks              1957     7.24       43
    78   Ralph Kiner              1948     7.21       40
    79   Al Rosen                 1953     7.18       43
    80   Hank Greenberg           1940     7.16       41
    81   Hank Aaron               1957     7.15       44
    T82  Rocky Colavito           1959     7.14       42
    T82  Johnny Mize              1948     7.14       40
    84   Duke Snider              1953     7.12       42
    85   Lou Gehrig               1930     7.06       41
    86   Ted Kluszewski           1953     7.02       40
    87   Jimmie Foxx              1936     7.01       41
    88   Willie Mays              1961     6.99       40
    89   Chuck Klein              1929     6.98       43
    90   Hank Aaron               1963     6.97       44
    91   Gil Hodges               1951     6.87       40
    92   Ernie Banks              1960     6.87       41
    93   Dick Stuart              1963     6.86       42
    94   Duke Snider              1954     6.85       40
    95   Hank Aaron               1960     6.78       40
    96   Rogers Hornsby           1922     6.74       42
    97   Hank Greenberg           1937     6.73       40
    98   Hal Trosky               1936     6.68       42
    99   Wally Post               1955     6.66       40
    100  Chuck Klein              1930     6.17       40
    This list is obviously affected by numerous variables, era, stadiums etc… those are valid points, those are also the talking points of the data, but I ‘m not going to digress….and in the end, prior to division era play there are 100 instances of 40 homes runs being hit in a season.

    That’s 47 seasons, or an average of 2.12% instances of it a season.

    Onward… to the next part of the ramble.

    In 1970, I was just awakening to the ebb and flow of the season, I had discovered sports on the radio and especially baseball, this is also the second year of division play from 1969-1994 when baseball missed the world series and returned with another revamped divisional format there were 52 players to reach 40 home runs in a year.
    Code:
    HR%                           YEAR     HR%      HR
    1    Matt Williams            1994     9.66       43
    2    Hank Aaron               1971     9.49       47
    3    Willie Stargell          1971     9.39       48
    4    Ken Griffey Jr.          1994     9.24       40
    5    Willie McCovey           1969     9.16       45
    6    Dave Kingman             1979     9.02       48
    7    Mark McGwire             1992     8.99       42
    8    Cecil Fielder            1990     8.90       51
    9    Harmon Killebrew         1969     8.83       49
    10   Mark McGwire             1987     8.80       49
    11   Mike Schmidt             1980     8.76       48
    12   Kevin Mitchell           1989     8.66       47
    13   Juan Gonzalez            1993     8.58       46
    14   Reggie Jackson           1969     8.56       47
    15   Barry Bonds              1993     8.53       46
    16   George Foster            1977     8.46       52
    17   Willie Stargell          1973     8.43       44
    18   Mike Schmidt             1979     8.32       45
    19   Frank Howard             1969     8.11       48
    20   Gorman Thomas            1979     8.08       45
    21   Hank Aaron               1969     8.04       44
    22   Reggie Jackson           1980     7.98       41
    23   Darrell Evans            1985     7.92       40
    24   Andre Dawson             1987     7.89       49
    25   Harmon Killebrew         1970     7.78       41
    T26  Dale Murphy              1987     7.77       44
    T26  Frank Howard             1970     7.77       44
    28   Ken Griffey Jr.          1993     7.73       45
    29   George Bell              1987     7.70       47
    T30  Davey Johnson            1973     7.69       43
    T30  Jose Canseco             1991     7.69       44
    32   Mike Schmidt             1983     7.49       40
    33   Rico Petrocelli          1969     7.48       40
    34   Frank Thomas             1993     7.47       41
    35   Johnny Bench             1970     7.44       45
    36   Johnny Bench             1972     7.43       40
    37   Juan Gonzalez            1992     7.36       43
    38   Jeff Burroughs           1977     7.08       41
    39   Carl Yastrzemski         1970     7.07       40
    40   Cecil Fielder            1991     7.05       44
    41   Ben Oglivie              1980     6.93       41
    42   Darrell Evans            1973     6.89       41
    43   Jose Canseco             1988     6.89       42
    44   David Justice            1993     6.84       40
    45   Tony Perez               1970     6.81       40
    46   Jim Rice                 1978     6.79       46
    47   Jesse Barfield           1986     6.79       40
    48   Tony Armas               1984     6.73       43
    49   Carl Yastrzemski         1969     6.63       40
    50   George Foster            1978     6.62       40
    51   Billy Williams           1970     6.60       42
    52   Ryne Sandberg            1990     6.50       40
    Again the factors involving this somewhat tenuous benchmark are known, but we’ll continue, and this portion of the trip finds us in the division era, Astroturf, multi-use stadiums, etc… the rate for this quarter of a century is 2.08 instances a season, We’ll also note that no one reached a home run percentage of 10%.

    In the prior list we see that it occurred 6 times.

    Still the current range since Babe Ruth jumped from number 99 on the lifetime HR list to number 9 is in a comfortable 2.08 players a season range, not very gaudy, yet not too stingy.

    Our next stop is the past 13 seasons of major league baseball, 13 years since the canceled World Series and the new divisional set up, one with unbalanced schedules and many new cozy parks, also in the air is the issue of PED’s and what they can do, but that’s not where this leads, we’re just making lists.

    So from 1995-2207 we have this many players who have hit 40 home runs in a season.

    Code:
    HR%                           YEAR     HR%      HR
    1    Barry Bonds              2001    15.34       73
    2    Mark McGwire             1998    13.75       70
    3    Mark McGwire             1999    12.48       65
    4    Mark McGwire             1996    12.29       52
    5    Barry Bonds              2004    12.06       45
    6    Barry Bonds              2003    11.54       45
    7    Barry Bonds              2002    11.41       46
    8    Sammy Sosa               2001    11.09       64
    9    Jim Thome                2002    10.83       52
    10   Mark McGwire             1997    10.74       58
    11   Sammy Sosa               1998    10.26       66
    12   Barry Bonds              2000    10.21       49
    13   Sammy Sosa               1999    10.08       63
    14   Ryan Howard              2006     9.98       58
    15   David Ortiz              2006     9.68       54
    16   Carlos Pena              2007     9.39       46
    17   Luis Gonzalez            2001     9.36       57
    18   Jim Thome                2001     9.32       49
    19   Alex Rodriguez           2007     9.26       54
    20   Travis Hafner            2006     9.25       42
    21   Ken Griffey Jr.          1997     9.21       56
    22   Albert Pujols            2006     9.16       49
    23   Albert Belle             1995     9.16       50
    24   Alex Rodriguez           2002     9.13       57
    25   Ken Griffey Jr.          1996     8.99       49
    26   Ryan Howard              2007     8.88       47
    27   Ken Griffey Jr.          1998     8.85       56
    28   Sammy Sosa               2002     8.81       49
    T29  Prince Fielder           2007     8.73       50
    T29  Greg Vaughn              1998     8.73       50
    31   Andruw Jones             2005     8.70       51
    32   Juan Gonzalez            1996     8.69       47
    33   Brady Anderson           1996     8.64       50
    34   Larry Walker             1997     8.63       49
    35   Gary Sheffield           2000     8.58       43
    36   Jim Thome                2006     8.57       42
    37   Jay Buhner               1995     8.51       40
    38   Jim Edmonds              2004     8.43       42
    39   Jason Giambi             2000     8.43       43
    40   Manny Ramirez            1999     8.43       44
    41   Lance Berkman            2006     8.40       45
    42   Alex Rodriguez           1999     8.37       42
    43   Troy Glaus               2000     8.35       47
    44   Todd Helton              2001     8.35       49
    45   Rafael Palmeiro          1999     8.32       47
    46   Sammy Sosa               2000     8.28       50
    47   Jim Thome                2004     8.27       42
    48   Alex Rodriguez           2001     8.23       52
    49   Greg Vaughn              1999     8.18       45
    50   Jermaine Dye             2006     8.16       44
    51   Jim Thome                2003     8.13       47
    52   Barry Bonds              1996     8.12       42
    53   Manny Ramirez            2005     8.12       45
    54   Frank Thomas             1995     8.11       40
    55   Adam Dunn                2004     8.10       46
    56   Gary Sheffield           1996     8.09       42
    57   Jim Thome                1997     8.06       40
    58   Albert Belle             1998     8.05       49
    59   Carlos Beltran           2006     8.04       41
    60   Sammy Sosa               1996     8.03       40
    61   Adrian Beltre            2004     8.03       48
    62   Jim Edmonds              2000     8.00       42
    63   Albert Belle             1996     7.97       48
    64   Jeff Bagwell             2000     7.97       47
    65   Greg Vaughn              1996     7.95       41
    66   Chipper Jones            1999     7.94       45
    67   Alex Rodriguez           2005     7.93       48
    68   Andres Galarraga         1998     7.93       44
    69   Ken Griffey Jr.          1999     7.92       48
    70   Shawn Green              2001     7.92       49
    71   Jose Canseco             1998     7.89       46
    72   Richard Hidalgo          2000     7.89       44
    73   Manny Ramirez            1998     7.88       45
    74   Juan Gonzalez            1997     7.88       42
    75   Rafael Palmeiro          2002     7.88       43
    76   Rafael Palmeiro          2001     7.83       47
    77   David Justice            2000     7.82       41
    78   David Ortiz              2005     7.82       47
    79   Jay Buhner               1996     7.80       44
    80   Albert Pujols            2004     7.77       46
    81   Manny Ramirez            2001     7.75       41
    82   Derrek Lee               2005     7.74       46
    83   Alex Rodriguez           2003     7.74       47
    84   Sammy Sosa               2003     7.74       40
    85   Vladimir Guerrero        2000     7.71       44
    T86  Frank Thomas             2003     7.69       42
    T86  Ken Griffey Jr.          2000     7.69       40
    88   Carlos Delgado           1999     7.68       44
    89   Jason Giambi             2003     7.66       41
    90   Adam Dunn                2007     7.66       40
    91   Jeff Bagwell             1997     7.60       43
    92   Todd Hundley             1996     7.59       41
    93   Frank Thomas             1996     7.59       40
    94   Manny Ramirez            2004     7.57       43
    95   Richie Sexson            2001     7.53       45
    96   Barry Bonds              1997     7.52       40
    97   Phil Nevin               2001     7.51       41
    98   Andres Galarraga         1996     7.51       47
    99   Mike Piazza              1999     7.49       40
    100  Jeff Bagwell             1999     7.47       42
    T101 Juan Gonzalez            1998     7.43       45
    T101 Richie Sexson            2003     7.43       45
    T103 Tino Martinez            1997     7.41       44
    T103 Jay Buhner               1997     7.41       40
    105  Alex Rodriguez           2000     7.40       41
    106  Frank Thomas             2000     7.39       43
    107  Carlos Delgado           2003     7.37       42
    108  Adam Dunn                2005     7.37       40
    109  Ken Caminiti             1996     7.33       40
    110  Jason Giambi             2002     7.32       41
    111  Paul Konerko             2004     7.28       41
    112  Albert Pujols            2003     7.28       43
    113  Lance Berkman            2002     7.27       42
    114  Andruw Jones             2006     7.26       41
    115  Todd Helton              2000     7.24       42
    116  Shawn Green              2002     7.22       42
    117  Carlos Delgado           2000     7.21       41
    118  Mike Piazza              1997     7.19       40
    119  Vinny Castilla           1998     7.13       46
    120  Adam Dunn                2006     7.13       40
    121  Alfonso Soriano          2006     7.11       46
    122  David Ortiz              2004     7.04       41
    123  Troy Glaus               2001     6.97       41
    124  Paul Konerko             2005     6.96       40
    125  Rafael Palmeiro          1998     6.95       43
    126  Albert Pujols            2005     6.94       41
    127  Mo Vaughn                1996     6.93       44
    128  Dante Bichette           1995     6.91       40
    129  Vladimir Guerrero        1999     6.89       42
    130  Shawn Green              1999     6.84       42
    131  Andres Galarraga         1997     6.83       41
    132  Mark Teixeira            2005     6.68       43
    133  Tony Batista             2000     6.61       41
    134  Mo Vaughn                1998     6.57       40
    135  Vinny Castilla           1997     6.54       40
    136  Ellis Burks              1996     6.53       40
    137  Vinny Castilla           1996     6.36       40
    138  Alex Rodriguez           1998     6.12       42
    WOW!!!!

    ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY EIGHT!!!


    That’s an average of 10.6 a season, last season there were only 5, in 2000 there were 16.

    10.6 is a far cry from 2.08.

    In fact it’s a ridiculous leap, but that’s the nature of the game, it changes it morphs into weird things at times, things like all these homers, or steroid talk.

    One things for sure Earl Weaver was right, the game revolves around pitching, and that’s what leads us to the next list.

    Seriously, when you think about the game and you’ve been a Reds fan as long as I have you tend to think through the spectrum that shines through the offensive side first. It’s the nature of being a Reds fan, as I’ve stated before the Reds approach to the game has been unique over the past 50 years.

    Since 1955 only the Reds and the Red Sox have winning percentages over .500 and worst than league average ERA’s.

    Code:
    WINNING PERCENTAGE              PCT      ERA
    1    Yankees                    .562     0.27
    2    Dodgers                    .539     0.39
    3    Red Sox                    .527     -.04
    4    Braves                     .524     0.09
    5    Reds                       .524     -.11
    6    Cardinals                  .522     0.08
    7    Orioles                    .521     0.14
    8    Giants                     .516     0.05
    9    White Sox                  .513     0.12
    Now this is a dance with often bad results, and if we are to look at the history of the game we’ll find that not many teams win more then 90 games with an average ERA, or a below average ERA and when I say not many I mean not many at all.

    Here’s an example of the top 10 worst pitching teams (BY ERA vs. the League) 100 win clubs.

    An example of the difference between the 1975 Reds and 1975 Reds pitching staff is 43.74 runs over 162 games.
    Code:
    ERA                           YEAR     DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE      W
    1    Yankees                  2004     -.05     4.69     4.64      101
    2    Reds                     1976     0.00     3.51     3.50      102
    3    Tigers                   1915     0.07     2.86     2.93      100
    4    Red Sox                  1946     0.12     3.38     3.50      104
    5    Giants                   1962     0.15     3.79     3.94      103
    6    Dodgers                  1953     0.19     4.10     4.28      105
    7    Braves                   2003     0.19     4.10     4.29      101
    8    Phillies                 1977     0.21     3.71     3.91      101
    9    Reds                     1975     0.27     3.37     3.63      108
    10   Tigers                   1968     0.27     2.71     2.98      103
    Ok.. so there aren’t many poor 100 win clubs, but lets note that is the Yankee squad that blew the 3-1 playoff lead, maybe it was the pitching?

    Next we look at the teams who won 90 or more with league average or less ERA’s.

    But before we do that let’s run a quick number search on the total of teams in modern history that have won 90 games…. and we find 461 as the answer, surely many of them have had more the a league average ERA.

    Code:
    Team                     YEAR      W       ERA         Runs
    Reds                     1976      102     0.00        1
    Yankees                  2004      101     -.05        2
    A's                      1914       99     -.04        1
    Red Sox                  1977       97     -.08        1
    Indians                  1999       97     -.04        1
    Cubs                     1984       96     -.16        1
    A's                      1913       96     -.26        1
    Yankees                  2005       95     -.17        2
    Red Sox                  1975       95     -.20        1
    Rangers                  1999       95     -.20        2
    Red Sox                  2005       95     -.38        1
    Red Sox                  1950       94     -.31        1
    Cubs                     1937       93     -.07        1
    Astros                   2001       93     -.02        2
    Cardinals                1963       93     -.03        1
    Giants                   1927       92     -.05        1
    Red Sox                  1967       92     -.13        1
    Dodgers                  1954       92     -.23        2
    Reds                     1978       92     -.24        2
    Brewers                  1987       91     -.15        2
    Tigers                   1971       91     -.16        2
    Giants                   2004       91     -.03        2
    Reds                     1956       91     -.07        1
    Indians                  2001       91     -.17        2
    Yankees                  1933       91     -.08        1
    Cubs                     1912       91     -.03        2
    Tigers                   1967       91     -.09        2
    Giants                   1997       90     -.22        4
    Cubs                     1998       90     -.26        3
    Yankees                  1906       90     -.09        2
    Tigers                   1908       90     -.02        1
    Mariners                 1997       90     -.22        1
    White Sox                1977       90     -.18        3
    Mets                     1984       90     -.04        6
    Cardinals                1971       90     -.39        2
    White Sox                2006       90     -.05        3
    When I say many, I wasn’t thinking 36, or about 7.8% of the teams that have won 90.

    Of course when you have an ERA that doesn’t keep up with the league and win ninety games you often have a great offense.

    In the case of our 36 teams we find 16 teams having led their league in Runs scored and 14 who were 2nd in the league in Runs. 21 of the 36 are AL teams and the Red Sox lead all teams with 5 appearances on the list (the Reds show up 3 times) 27% of the teams on the list achieved this feat after the strike in 1994. 6 of the teams made it to the World Series, each of those teams were also number one in the league in scoring runs.

    So next time you shrug your head at the adage that pitching wins games remember that somewhere in there is a grain of truth, and sometimes you have to trade dynamic outfielders when their market value is high, just so you can make a hedge bet on pitching, because deep down it matters.

    Even if you think it’s boring.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,355

    Re: Making a List

    Even if you think it’s boring.
    I was a junkballing lefty who gave up on pitching way too early, I find out later in life (regrets, regrets). Watching a pitcher make hitters look silly is very exciting and, just like anything, balance is the key, with a healthy diet of slugfests and pitcher's duels to satisfy the baseball junkie's appetite.

    I found out the other day when watching the 75 World Series while Freddie Norman won my heart over Don Gullett. Norman I could pitch like, Gullett I could not. I even had a sidearm curve that acted like a screwgie. I would drop down three quarters and the arm action would make the ball run away from righties. Needless to say, I am keeping an eye on the throw-in in the Volquez deal!
    Last edited by traderumor; 12-26-2007 at 04:29 PM.

  4. #3
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: Making a List

    I think the last list of 40 HR guys is infested with PEDs. As a matter of fact I would think the list of guys using PEDs is much larger than those not.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    princeton, nj
    Posts
    9,482

    Re: Making a List

    this front office has been extremely aggressive in trading for pitching. We haven't seen this in 20 years.


    I was looking over your 100 game winners:


    ERA YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE W
    1 Yankees 2004 -.05 4.69 4.64 101
    2 Reds 1976 0.00 3.51 3.50 102
    3 Tigers 1915 0.07 2.86 2.93 100
    4 Red Sox 1946 0.12 3.38 3.50 104
    5 Giants 1962 0.15 3.79 3.94 103
    6 Dodgers 1953 0.19 4.10 4.28 105
    7 Braves 2003 0.19 4.10 4.29 101
    8 Phillies 1977 0.21 3.71 3.91 101
    9 Reds 1975 0.27 3.37 3.63 108
    10 Tigers 1968 0.27 2.71 2.98 103


    some excellent defensive teams on that list, eh? I think that, to a point, you can overcome your starting pitching with defense and a bullpen.

    honestly, I think that the Reds can acquire great starting pitching but still ruin it with the defense OR with the bullpen OR with its probable dependence on key lefty hitters -- imagine a lineup with Bruce/Jr/Dunn/Votto. There are a lot of ways to beat this team.

    but we do have some good parts. It will take more trades, and some nonsignings, to convert to parts that actually work together.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    princeton, nj
    Posts
    9,482

    Re: Making a List

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I was a junkballing lefty
    the Reds would probably trade for you. They sure as heck don't want to face you

  7. #6
    Member Spitball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,597

    Re: Making a List

    I guess I missed this post. It is great! You are amazing, woy.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton

  8. #7
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Santa Paula, CA
    Posts
    6,536

    Re: Making a List

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    this front office has been extremely aggressive in trading for pitching. We haven't seen this in 20 years.


    I was looking over your 100 game winners:


    ERA YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE W
    1 Yankees 2004 -.05 4.69 4.64 101
    2 Reds 1976 0.00 3.51 3.50 102
    3 Tigers 1915 0.07 2.86 2.93 100
    4 Red Sox 1946 0.12 3.38 3.50 104
    5 Giants 1962 0.15 3.79 3.94 103
    6 Dodgers 1953 0.19 4.10 4.28 105
    7 Braves 2003 0.19 4.10 4.29 101
    8 Phillies 1977 0.21 3.71 3.91 101
    9 Reds 1975 0.27 3.37 3.63 108
    10 Tigers 1968 0.27 2.71 2.98 103


    some excellent defensive teams on that list, eh? I think that, to a point, you can overcome your starting pitching with defense and a bullpen.

    honestly, I think that the Reds can acquire great starting pitching but still ruin it with the defense OR with the bullpen OR with its probable dependence on key lefty hitters -- imagine a lineup with Bruce/Jr/Dunn/Votto. There are a lot of ways to beat this team.but we do have some good parts. It will take more trades, and some nonsignings, to convert to parts that actually work together.
    There are lots of ways to get your brains beaten in also.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  9. #8
    Member Spitball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    5,597

    Re: Making a List

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la View Post
    There are lots of ways to get your brains beaten in also.
    Considering the small number of quality left handed starters around the NL, I doubt a heavily leaning lefthanded line-up hurts all that much.
    "I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25