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Thread: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

  1. #16
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    I'm just wondering why if house cleaning is really what needs to happen, why doesn't it start with him?

    He's the one who put all the people in place that need to be thrown out.
    Exactly. Which is why I stated this.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Marvin Lewis was given a lot of credit, and rightfully so, for "cleaning house" and changing the losing culture the pervaded this franchise for the 90's.

    So he also has to take responsibility for creating the current culture and climate that he is now complaining about.

    So now he feels it may be necessary to clean house again?

    He helped to create it.

    That's like Victor Frankenstein creating the monster, realizing he made a mistake, and that he must do something before the monster gets out of hand. Yet in the end, he's the one destroyed by the very monster he created.

    I've always liked Marvin. It can't be denied what he has done to change that "culture of losing" with the Bengals.

    But over time he has fueled my doubts when it comes to his control, discipline, and leadership of this team.

    Who is really running the ship?
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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  3. #17
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    The Browns have no idea how to build and maintain a club and unfortunately Marvin has not been able to take the talent he has to mold a team of win oriented football players. On an individual level, each player has to dedicate themselves to the success of the team, which requires a certain amount of selflessness and the proper perspective about how one's own contributions affect the outcome of the team's plan. And that's not a football thing- it's a good lesson for any organization. The players, coaches and the clubhouse are just not on the same page; guys like Chad Johnson who cries constantly about an offense that doesn't get the ball to him enough, extremely poor conditioning, terrible execution, egregious coaching mistakes, poor play calling and lot's and lot's of finger pointing and arguing. The Bengals are simply second tier club at this point and the blame for that has to go back to the top, to Marvin Lewis and the Browns.

    Should Marvin go? Well if Mike, Troy and Katie don't, then what really is the point? Nevertheless, I still think the Bengals are pretty close, but they need to put their money and their efforts into the defensive and offensive lines. Those two units have some talent, but what they lack is the collective strength and ferociousness that controls football games, which are won and loss at the line of scrimmage. Develop an offensive line that pushes around their opponents and a defensive line and linebackers that stop the run and the Bengals are in the playoffs.

    I think Marvin did a lot to turn the team into a winning club at first. Somehow, that has been lost, but I would give him the chance to put things into place again.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  4. #18
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    When he came in, we really had no talent at all. I think he acquired players through the draft, FA, etc. on talent alone. This is why we have so many criminals on our team. I think he ignored their off the field activities in order to win a few games on the field. It isn't a bad idea if you can keep them in order, but it didn't work. Now he has a team with some talent, but there is no order or discipline. Back to the drawing boards. I'll give him another season, but if there are no improvements then see ya later. He needs an entire new coaching staff.

  5. #19
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Yet when asked a direct question about his coaching:



    He never uses the word "I" one time:



    And then he turns the blame to the players:



    These are things the Bengals have done poorly, yes, but dropping a pass is not mostly coaching, it's the player.

    How about taking responsibility for his shoddy clock management?

    Is anything this guy's fault?
    Maybe he disagrees with you? Perhaps he approves of his clock management, or maybe he isn't self-evaluating itemized lists like you are, seeing as how the question was open ended. I saw that answer as self-deprecating, personally.

  6. #20
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    Maybe he disagrees with you? Perhaps he approves of his clock management, or maybe he isn't self-evaluating itemized lists like you are, seeing as how the question was open ended. I saw that answer as self-deprecating, personally.
    We'll never know if Marvin agrees or disagrees, becuase he never answers this kind of question honestly. It's always "we" or an inferred "they."

    How about an "I"?

    Even if he thinks none of it his fault, he isn't being intellectually honest. The responsibility falls on the head coach, unless your Marvin Lewis. they were hammering him for this on the NFL Network during the Niners game. I'm not the only one who notices his passing the buck.

    Whatever happened to taking responsiblilty for your own actions?
    If you're watchin' a parade, make sure you stand in one spot, don't follow it, it never changes. And if the parade is boring, run in the opposite direction, you will fast-foward the parade. --Mitch Hedberg

  7. #21
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    To go along with the clock management issues, his decisions as to when to challenge plays with the red flag and when to go for two-point conversions have been questionable, and I'm trying to be diplomatic with the use of the word "questionable".

    Since the team didn't completely self-destruct this year, I'll give him one more season. Anything less than 10-6 and the playoffs in 2008 and I'd send him packing.

  8. #22
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    Quote Originally Posted by macro View Post
    To go along with the clock management issues, his decisions as to when to challenge plays with the red flag and when to go for two-point conversions have been questionable, and I'm trying to be diplomatic with the use of the word "questionable".

    Since the team didn't completely self-destruct this year, I'll give him one more season. Anything less than 10-6 and the playoffs in 2008 and I'd send him packing.
    I think the problem with challenges indicates that they need someone with a better pair of eyes in the booth. Or maybe they need a guy in the booth. Teams usually have someone up in the booth who tells the coach whether to throw the flag. According to my friend the Browns fan, Romeo Crennel is also notorious for throwing the challenge flag at the wrong times. But the clock management issues and the two-point conversion calls are on Marvin. I think he plays those situations by the book when he could be using his brain and intuition.

    I think a lot of people would disagree with it, but sometimes, when the Bengals D is getting mowed down by the opposing team in its 2-minute offense, I'd like to see Marvin go off the script and call a timeout. I think it would give the D time to get set and break the other team's momentum.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  9. #23
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    We'll never know if Marvin agrees or disagrees, becuase he never answers this kind of question honestly. It's always "we" or an inferred "they."

    How about an "I"?

    Even if he thinks none of it his fault, he isn't being intellectually honest. The responsibility falls on the head coach, unless your Marvin Lewis. they were hammering him for this on the NFL Network during the Niners game. I'm not the only one who notices his passing the buck.

    Whatever happened to taking responsiblilty for your own actions?
    You infer that he means "they." I know you are impressed by such things, but "buck stops here" talk has never really done much for me. All it usually accomplishes is for some outsider to feel vindicated and most of the time it is just machismo talk with very little change forthcoming. I'm pretty sure that Marvin is a smart enough leader to know that he carries ultimate responsibility for the football team's performance, whether he says exactly what you want him to say in an interview or not. You are all wrapped up in that, while this leader has effectively said "the program I've built needs torn down" in this interview. I'm not sure someone could take more personal responsibility by that admittance. But by all means, continue to parse "we."

  10. #24
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    It's been my personal experience that you say "we" when successful, and "I" when failing if you are a leader. Marvin isn't really doing a good job of that IMO. Then again I'm in middle management, so my theory could be faulty.

    I think this team is better with Odell coming back [hopefully], Justin leaving, and a high round pick devoted to drafting a good d-lineman.

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
    Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90
    Chicago Blackhawks - 10, 13
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    Cincinnati Bengals - None
    Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

  11. #25
    The Future GoReds33's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    I hope he isn't just blowing smoke. The Bengals need an overhaul. They don't need a league-average defensive end making what a superstar should make. They don't need to hold onto a running back that has steadily declined over the past three years.
    If you can't build a winning team with that core a fire-sale isn't the solution. Selling the franchise, moving them to Nashville and converting GABP into a used car lot is.
    -LTlabner

  12. #26
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    The real question is....will Mike Brown let Marvin do what he feels he needs to do?

    If he doesn't, will Marvin walk?

  13. #27
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    I've said before I think much like Baseball managers, most coaches are pretty much the same. That's why they get recycled two or three times.

    If I was laying odds, I'd think the following chances exist;
    10% chance a new coach would improve the team anywhere from 1-3 wins.
    50% chance the new coach really wouldn't make a difference maybe one win better, one win worse.
    40% chance the coach will put together the wrong program for the team and the team will fall apart.

    So given those odds, would you want to hire a new coach when there's a 9 out 10 chance he will be no better and there's a 4 out 10 chance he'll actually make the team worse.

    Given that the Bengals are run by Mike Brown, would you want to take the chance that he's able to find the 1 out 10 coaches who would actually improve the team?
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  14. #28
    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamSelig
    When he came in, we really had no talent at all. I think he acquired players through the draft, FA, etc. on talent alone.
    I disagree. The vast majority of our most talented players (Chad, T.J., Willie, Levi and Rudi) were in place when Lewis took over. You can give him credit for drafting Palmer, but that was a no-brainer to most. I'm not ready to run him out of town yet, but I'm unwilling to credit him for acquiring talent that was already there.

  15. #29
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss-Hog View Post
    I disagree. The vast majority of our most talented players (Chad, T.J., Willie, Levi and Rudi) were in place when Lewis took over. You can give him credit for drafting Palmer, but that was a no-brainer to most. I'm not ready to run him out of town yet, but I'm unwilling to credit him for acquiring talent that was already there.
    I give Marvin Lewis credit for changing the attitude of losing that pervaded the organization before he came along. He did a good job of getting players to change their attitudes in order to win. I think the problem is that, once they started winning, it seems like he thought his job was done and that players would continue to have a good work ethic based solely on the fact that they win football games. Unfortunately, that has proven not to be true. It sounds like once they started winning, some guys starting thinking about big paychecks rather than playoffs. I've noticed the last two seasons we haven't heard much about Marvin using various motivational tactics and team-building. Maybe that's what he's good at.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  16. #30
    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
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    Re: The REAL Marvin Lewis...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    I give Marvin Lewis credit for changing the attitude of losing that pervaded the organization before he came along. He did a good job of getting players to change their attitudes in order to win. I think the problem is that, once they started winning, it seems like he thought his job was done and that players would continue to have a good work ethic based solely on the fact that they win football games. Unfortunately, that has proven not to be true. It sounds like once they started winning, some guys starting thinking about big paychecks rather than playoffs. I've noticed the last two seasons we haven't heard much about Marvin using various motivational tactics and team-building. Maybe that's what he's good at.
    I think that's a fair assessment.


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