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Thread: Swisher to White Sox

  1. #196
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Swisher to White Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    actually, I do not concede that. A year ago, you could get a lot for him, and you can get the same this year.

    You see, there's only so much that another team will risk spending on any pitching prospect. It's never as much as a great prospect is actually worth to its own team; therefore, great pitching prospects are rarely traded. That maximum value that teams will offer for top pitching prospects would be offered to the Reds this year or last year for Homer.
    Great pitching prospects are traded as often as any other player.
    Make a list of all pitchers that you consider great in the last 20 years. Many (not all) were traded before they broke through.
    I'd even go so far to say that the homegrown ace like Oswalt or Glavine is the exception more than the rule.

    R Johnson, Curt Schilling, Pedro, Smoltz, Rijo, Danny Jackson..
    all traded.. Garza was just traded this season.





    really, the only difference compared to last year is that the Reds see Homer as being less valuable to the Reds and have therefore made him available for that "maximum offer". Also, Redszoners are more interested in trading the guy.

    but his trade value is pretty much the same.

    Last year, Homer was untouchable. This year, he's available.
    IMO, that's telling about what Wayne thinks. Maybe his value is the same to you, but not Wayne. If the A's thought highly of Homer as highly, we'd probably have Haren now.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  3. #197
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Swisher to White Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    I kind of like that Arroyo guy.
    I did overlook Aroyo. That's the one good vet trade Wayne has made.

    By "exploring", I meant the Reds should aggressively try to get something done. Technically, DanO went exploring every year, but he never actually did anything.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  4. #198
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Swisher to White Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Last year, Homer was untouchable. This year, he's available.
    IMO, that's telling about what Wayne thinks. Maybe his value is the same to you, but not Wayne. If the A's thought highly of Homer as highly, we'd probably have Haren now.
    Homer may have been untouchable for the sheer fact that no pitchers worth his value were available. Had Haren or Bedard been available last year, then maybe he wouldn't have been untouchable, but they weren't. I think you are reading into it a little much. The market from 2007 is not the market from 2008, there were no premiere pitchers on the market..... as of right now we know of at least 3 that have been rumored in Bedard, Haren and for a brief time at least Kazmir.

  5. #199
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Swisher to White Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I did overlook Aroyo. That's the one good vet trade Wayne has made.

    By "exploring", I meant the Reds should aggressively try to get something done. Technically, DanO went exploring every year, but he never actually did anything.
    I think you want something to happen just so it doesn't appear to be 'sitting on the hands', regardless of the fact that maybe the Reds are going to get ripped off in the trade. From the sounds of the Mariners offer the Reds would have to counter with something like Bruce, Votto and a good major league reliever coming off a year with a 2.36 ERA and 56 strikeouts in 45 innings..... Is Eric Bedard really worth that kind of package?

  6. #200
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    Re: Swisher to White Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Great pitching prospects are traded as often as any other player.
    the point isn't that top 10 pitching prospects aren't traded (although that's not who you listed, plus you listed guys traded over the past 20 years. Try harder next time)

    Rather, the point is that you never get a huge return for them. Oh the return is OK, but it's not what I'd call full value. Simply put, nobody can afford to trade to you the true value of great players and great prospects, because it would gut the team. That's why such players are rarely traded unless their teams can no longer afford to pay them or unless their teams desperately need something of lesser value in order to compete for the world series.

    A team that's out of the race almost never trades a great player or prospect that it can afford to pay. Oakland is a very recent exception to this rule.

    The key point about Haren's trade value was that Beane could have gotten almost anything that he wanted for him, up to a certain level of return that no team will exceed. And he could have traded him to any team that he wanted, because nearly all teams could afford Haren. Now THAT'S value. You don't seem to admire what Beane received, but that exposes your problem: you think that you know more about building a team for its market than Oakland does. Think about that for a long time.

    Maybe Beane will turn out to have made a bad trade, but that wasn't because Haren did not have a ton of value.
    Last edited by princeton; 01-09-2008 at 07:44 AM.

  7. #201
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Swisher to White Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I did overlook Aroyo. That's the one good vet trade Wayne has made.

    By "exploring", I meant the Reds should aggressively try to get something done. Technically, DanO went exploring every year, but he never actually did anything.
    Well, from everything I've read, the Reds have been mentioned in a large number of trade deals. To me, that would qualify as aggressive.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"


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