The Battle for Basketball Relevance: UK vs. Louisville

[Blimpie]

While this year's game is scarcely more than a regional story, I still thought it might be deserving of its own thread. Both teams have RPI rankings that are of biblical proportions and are teetering on the brink of irrelevance for this year's basketball season. The big question around here in recent days is: Which coach needs this victory more, Gillispie or Pitino?

Many want to give Gillispie a mulligan until "his" players arrive, but I am not so sure. I think UK has about 2-3 losses this year that were directly tied to coaching decisions that were made/not made during contests and mind games that Gillispie was playing with the UK players. Kentucky's RPI will not improve by winning many games in a down SEC that might only get four teams in the NCAA. Gillispie's footing is shaky in Lexington; however, not all of that has to do with the on-court performance of the Cats.

On the other hand, Pitino's recent antics with Caracter have made him a laughing stock with the Louisville and national media. Cats fans are silently snickering as they knew it was only a matter of time until Rick started talking out of both sides of his mouth about family virtues. Here's the thing, Richard: morals are a be-yotch when you actually have to go around displaying them, as well as espousing them. Now that Pitino will soon be running against some beastly teams (Pitt, Georgetown, etc..), it appears that the Cards will have little chance of finishing in the upper echelon of the Big East.

Whatever happens today will be talked about for weeks in this state. Frankly, now that the football season is over, I am a little depressed about what I will do with myself until baseball season starts.

[Blimpie]

http://www.kentucky.com/277/story/276898.html

Posted on Sat, Jan. 05, 2008
Pitino 'hates' game with UK
By Russ Brown
KENTUCKY.COM

LOUISVILLE — This will be former University of Kentucky coach Rick Pitino's seventh meeting with his ex-employer since taking the Louisville job in 2001, and his fourth return trip to Rupp Arena.

But that doesn't mean it has gotten any easier for Pitino, or that his feelings have changed about the rivalry.

"I'm not going to lie to you, I hate this game," Pitino told reporters Friday afternoon on the eve of UofL's clash with UK Saturday afternoon in Rupp (4 o'clock, CBS).

Pitino spent eight seasons at UK, guiding the Wildcats to a 219-50 record, a national championship and three Final Fours from 1990-97.

"I hate it because I have too many fond memories, too many great moments and great things that happened for eight years," said Pitino, whose team will be trying to snap a three-game losing streak against UK.

Pitino said that after he had tentatively accepted the Michigan job over Louisville before changing his mind, his wife, Joanne, said, 'You're not just taking the job because one time every two years you just don't want to walk in there?'

"And it's not the boos and everything like that," Pitino said. "It's just that I had so many great memories and great times that I just didn't want to deal with it. You walk in and see all those banners and things ... I'm like a horse who needs blinkers on so I don't look around and see the names I'm so proud of and all those great moments. You can't think about that because you have a game to coach.

"So I don't like the game. I didn't mind it at Kentucky because I had no affiliation with Louisville. It's the one game I get over, I try to get a victory and move on. This game is for the fans more than anything else because the fans get fired up about it and I understand that."

Pitino and his players also understand they badly need a victory after stumbling in their Big East Conference opener and losing at home to Cincinnati — which was picked 12th in the league — 58-57 Tuesday to fall to 9-4.

The Cards started the season ranked No. 6 nationally, but have dropped out of the Top 25 and — with a grueling Big East schedule looming — can ill afford another non-conference defeat, especially to a .500 team like UK (6-6). Whereas most years, one or both teams have been ranked and the game has attracted national attention, this time it looks like a battle of survival for both as far as their NCAA Tournament chances are concerned.

"The NCAA Tournament isn't looking too good right now," UofL guard Edgar Sosa said. "Not just because of the four losses, but who we're losing to. Something has got to be done to change this around."

UofL center David Padgett says the UK game is a must win for the Cardinals before they return to Freedom Hall to resume their Big East slate against West Virginia on Thursday, then play three of their next four on the road, plus a visit by No. 10 Marquette. UofL hopes to use UK as a springboard to better things.

"You can say all you want about the fact that it's Kentucky, but the bottom line is we just need to win a game," Padgett said. "If we were playing a conference game or anybody, I would say the exact same thing. It definitely doesn't get any easier after this game. Hopefully, we can use this to start playing well and get some momentum going because our conference schedule gets pretty tough pretty quick."

Pitino equated the Cards' situation to last season when they stood 5-4 following a 61-49 homecourt loss to the Cats. And they were 12-6 in mid-January without a victory over a ranked team before winning 10 of their last 12 regular-season games and earning an NCAA Tournament berth.

"This is another game that is very important to us, but we were in the same boat last year," Pitino said. "This boat is a lot more difficult than last year, though, because the Big East is tougher and our conference schedule is much tougher."

Pitino considers UK something of a mystery team. The Cats were upset at home by Gardiner-Webb and San Diego, and lost to UAB in Freedom Hall, but they've outshot opponents from the field 48.8 percent to 36.6, outrebounded them slightly and have blocked 30 more shots.

"They're tough to gauge because if you look at their stats and you didn't know what their record is, you would say they're undefeated or have one loss," Pitino said. "Their stats are very impressive. Anytime you have a plus-12 in field goal offense and defense you're getting good shots and you're playing good defense. So it's a little misleading. You're going to say, 'Well, why did they lose to this team or this team, and that's the question I can't answer."

Pitino characterized UK as having a strong inside-outside attack, with 6-8 forward/center Patrick Patterson (17.7 ppg, 8.2 rpg) and guards Joe Crawford (15.8 ppg) and Ramel Bradley (13.8 ppg), who have combined to hit 45 of 120 3-point attempts for 37.5 percent. UK's perimeter game has been strengthened with the return of sophomore guard Jodie Meeks from an injury.

"That's what makes their attack so difficult," Pitino said. "Patterson is one of the most impressive big men I've looked at this year for a freshman, but if you decide to double inside they do a great job of spacing, and when Patterson gets the ball on the baseline he does a great job of cutting on the interior and finding people. They're very dangerous because they're good inside-outside."

The Cards will be particularly attentive to stopping UK's 3-point shooters. The common denominator in UofL's four losses has been their inability to guard the 3-point line effectively, and to hit from beyond the arc themselves. For instance, Cincinnati was 8-of-14 from 3-point range to Louisville's 3-of-23, a difference of 15 points.

And in last year's loss to UK, the Cats hit 6-of-18 threes, UofL 3-of-24.

Since taking over at UofL, Pitino is 2-4 against UK, the last win coming on Dec. 27, 2003, in Rupp, 65-56.

Four of the Cards' top eight players — sophomores Earl Clark, Derrick Caracter, Jerry Smith and Edgar Sosa — have never faced UK in Rupp and Padgett and Pitino have warned them that it can be an unsettling experience, to say the least.

"I played for Kansas and that's pretty tough, but I think Rupp is probably the toughest place to play in the country," Padgett said. "Just the fact there are so many people, and needless to say, they don't like us very much. It is pretty intimidating when you go out there and see that many people."

Said Pitino: "It's an imposing place with 24,000 people who all look the same, all dressed the same. They're all in blue, they're all wearing UK necklaces, UK earrings. It's a lot of people and they obviously get behind their team."

[BoxingRed]

Now that Pitino will soon be running against some beastly teams (Pitt, Georgetown, etc..), it appears that the Cards will have little chance of finishing in the upper echelon of the Big East.

Ya know almost everyone, including me, was writing the Cards off this time last season and they ended up finishing tied for 2nd in the Big Beast. Let's make it to at least mid January before we start burying teams, especially teams that are 9-3 and have just gotten their 2 frontline leaders back from injury. I am not saying the Cards have done anything at all worthy of praise this season, but it's still extremely early.

[Blimpie]

Here's one more to set the tone...

http://www.kentucky.com/276/story/276078.html

Posted on Fri, Jan. 04, 2008
What's the difference?
Gillispie's honeymoon period much shorter than Pitino's
By Jerry Tipton
JTIPTON@HERALD-LEADER.COM

A humbled Kentucky program dislodged from its lofty perch and eager to regain pre-eminence.

That circumstance can produce wildly different responses from UK fans.

In 1989-90, the fans showered love on Rick Pitino. He inherited a program in disgrace and immediately transformed it into a thing of beauty. For one bright shining season, Rupp Arena became a house of joy. "Unforgettable" became part of the UK basketball lexicon.

In 2007-08, boos filled Rupp Arena in Game 2 of the Billy Gillispie error, er, era. A recruiting blitz in the months leading into his first season left fans with lovey-dovey eyes. Then the honeymoon abruptly ended, replaced by the metaphorical image of a fan base dressed in a housecoat, scowling face topped by a head full of curlers and wielding a frying pan. Losses to the likes of Gardner-Webb and San Diego remain unforgivable.

Huh?

Didn't the widespread perception of subpar recruiting in the last few years of Tubby Smith's tenure and the transition to a new coach make this season's struggles predictable? If not, didn't the subsequent injuries to projected starters Derrick Jasper and Jodie Meeks make the stumbling start inevitable? Doesn't Gillispie deserve patient understanding from UK fans?

"Good question," said Richie Farmer, a player in 1989-90 and now Kentucky's Agriculture Commissioner. "It's hard to understand."

As Pitino leads Louisville into Rupp Arena on Saturday, the difference in those two seasons makes for a timely exercise in compare and contrast. It's easy to forget that Pitino's Unforgettables had a 5-7 record after 12 games in 1989-90. Gillispie brings a 6-6 record against Louisville.

Those who remember 1989-90 begin to explain the different fan reaction by citing expectations.

The year before Pitino's arrival brought an NCAA investigation, charges of buying a player and academic fraud, the specter of sanctions (maybe even the so-called death penalty, which had been administered to SMU football earlier in the decade), the first losing record since 1926-27 and multiple player defections. Sports Illustrated captured the moment with its famous cover headline: Kentucky's Shame.

"It had been a devastating year," said Chris Cameron, then UK's Sports Information Director and now Associate Athletic Director at Boston College. "So many bad things happened. Losing season. North Carolina overtaking Kentucky (for first on the list for most all-time victories). The year before had just been embarrassing."

Doug Gottlieb, a college basketball analyst for ESPN, likened Kentucky's 1988-89 season to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11. Although clearly guilty of gross hyperbole, Gottlieb had a point when he said, "Remember after 9-11. Everywhere you went, people were nice. You thought, that is what it's supposed to be like."

Kentucky fans were nicer, simply thankful to have a basketball program. With only eight players and no one taller than 6-foot-8, UK brought a compelling David-against-Goliath quality to its games.

"Any victory was an upset," said Brooks Downing, then a UK student and later the basketball program's spokesman. "Coach Pitino was the best at packaging a message and delivering it to the fan base. He basically set the (low) expectations."

Secretly, the Cats expected more.

"Even when people thought we may not win five games, in Coach Pitino's first conversation with the team, he said we're going to win and win right away," Farmer said. "Expectations in the locker room were a lot different than for the people in stands."

A 14-14 final record brought euphoria. "I'm sure that people were genuinely scared at the time," ESPN analyst Jay Bilas said. "Rick brought hope and pride back to UK basketball."

Fast forward to 2007-08 and Kentucky stares at a .500 record. Yet boos punctuated the loss to Gardner-Webb and fan complaints touched on such subjects as the starting lineup (beginning with the first exhibition game), Gillispie's game attire (lack of blue in that first exhibition game), puzzling substitution patterns, Jared Carter's sitting time and Mark Coury's playing time.

Unlike Pitino's mastery of the public relations feint and spin, Gillispie gives UK basketball a guarded enigmatic persona. When asked on his pre-game radio show if Jodie Meeks would play against Tennessee Tech, he said, "I have no idea."

While Pitino inherited a mess, Gillispie took over a program that won 22 games. Seven of the losses were decided in overtime or by margins of no more than five points.

"Expectations were not to rebuild, but to take the next step and truly dominate," Bilas said. "But any time there is a change in leadership, there is usually a change in continuity and a resulting dip in performance. It happens everywhere. UCLA, North Carolina, you name it.

"Plus, Billy is not bringing in a change in style but something similar. He is bringing in a commitment to recruit better talent."

By its nature, recruiting takes time. Except for that glorious 1989-90 season, Kentucky fans only grudgingly give their coach that precious commodity.

"Everybody I talk to says we're going to give this guy one year," said former UK All-American Kenny Walker, who cited the loss to Gardner-Webb as pivotal. "People hit the panic button. That's a small school Kentucky is really supposed to beat no matter what. That's the game that changed everything."

A TALE OF TWO SEASONS

The first 12 games at Kentucky for Rick Pitino (5-7) and Billy Gillispie (6-6). (Rank refers to the opponents' ranking at the time of the game.)

1989-90 season

Date Team Result Score Rank

Nov. 28 OHIO W 76-73 14

Dec. 2 x-Indiana L 71-69

Dec. 4 MISSISSIPPI ST. W 102-97

Dec. 6 TENNESSEE TECH W 111-75

Dec. 9 at Kansas L 150-95 2

Dec. 19 FURMAN W 104-73

Dec. 22 y-PORTLAND W 88-71

Dec. 23 y-LA.-LAFAYETTE L 116-113(OT)

Dec. 27 z-North Carolina L 121-110 24

Dec. 30 LOUISVILLE L 86-79 8

Jan. 3 at Georgia L 106-91

Jan. 6 at Vanderbilt L 92-85

x-RCA Dome, Indianapolis; y-UKIT; z-Freedom Hall, Louisville;

2007-08 season

Date Team Result Score Rank

Nov. 6 a-CENT. ARKANSAS W 67-40

Nov. 7 a-Gardner-Webb L 84-68

Nov. 21 LIBERTY W 80-54

Nov. 24 TEXAS SOUTHERN W 83-35

Nov. 27 STONY BROOK W 62-52

Dec. 1 NORTH CAROLINA L 86-77 1

Dec. 8 at Indiana L 70-51 15

Dec. 15 b-UAB L 79-76

Dec. 18 at Houston L 83-69

Dec. 22 TENNESSEE TECH W 69-47

Dec. 29 SAN DIEGO L 81-72

Dec. 31 Fla. International W 92-49

a-2K College Sports Hoops Classic; b-Freedom Hall, Louisville

[Blimpie]

Ya know almost everyone, including me, was writing the Cards off this time last season and they ended up finishing tied for 2nd in the Big Beast. Let's make it to at least mid January before we start burying teams, especially teams that are 9-3 and have just gotten their 2 frontline leaders back from injury. I am not saying the Cards have done anything at all worthy of praise this season, but it's still extremely early.

To be quite honest, I only mentioned Pitt and Georgetown earlier. After seeing how they played against Cincinnati, I could quite easily see Louisville also losing conference games to: Marquette, Villanova, Notre Dame, and West Virginia.

UK will lose their share of games this year, but Louisville still has quite a few beat-downs coming their way this season.

[WMR]

While this year's game is scarcely more than a regional story, I still thought it might be deserving of its own thread. Both teams have RPI rankings that are of biblical proportions and are teetering on the brink of irrelevance for this year's basketball season. The big question around here in recent days is: Which coach needs this victory more, Gillispie or Pitino?

Many want to give Gillispie a mulligan until "his" players arrive, but I am not so sure. I think UK has about 2-3 losses this year that were directly tied to coaching decisions that were made/not made during contests and mind games that Gillispie was playing with the UK players. Kentucky's RPI will not improve by winning many games in a down SEC that might only get four teams in the NCAA. Gillispie's footing is shaky in Lexington; however, not all of that has to do with the on-court performance of the Cats.

On the other hand, Pitino's recent antics with Caracter have made him a laughing stock with the Louisville and national media. Cats fans are silently snickering as they knew it was only a matter of time until Rick started talking out of both sides of his mouth about family virtues. Here's the thing, Richard: morals are a be-yotch when you actually have to go around displaying them, as well as espousing them. Now that Pitino will soon be running against some beastly teams (Pitt, Georgetown, etc..), it appears that the Cards will have little chance of finishing in the upper echelon of the Big East.

Whatever happens today will be talked about for weeks in this state. Frankly, now that the football season is over, I am a little depressed about what I will do with myself until baseball season starts.

You need to read the first post in this thread by Marc Maggard. It really opened my eyes about Billy's "lack of in game adjustments" criticisms.

http://www.kentuckyink.com/index.php...0&topic=7005.0

[WMR]

LOTS OF REASONS TO HATE LOUISVILLE:

http://www.kentuckyink.com/index.php...0&topic=7055.0

[Blimpie]

WMR:

Those links are asking for login information. Can you post the text?

[WMR]

WMR:

Those links are asking for login information. Can you post the text?

Blimpie! You're not a member of KY Ink!?!? FOR SHAME!!



I'll post it.

[WMR]

It is that time UK Fans!!

Football season is over - great job Brooks/Joker/Staff/Players, truley a season to remember and a future to be
excited about.


2007 Basketball season is over


There is nothing else to think about, worry about, talk about because the next thing on the board is Louisville coming to town.


I hate everything about UofL.

I hate the fact the call themself DUHVILLE

I hate the fact they don't discourage in fact embrass "THUG LOVE"

I hate how they think they actually have TRADITION that compares with any true elite basketball program

I hate Louisville because their coaching staff is full of former UK players/Coaches and their roster has names of
that sounds like great UK players of the past.

I hate Louisville because they use state funds and student tuition to support their athletic program

I hate Louisville because they think it is cool for the student body to act like THUGS, like they actually know what it
means to live a tough life

I hate Louisville because the city smells horrible

I hate Louisville because they copy everything Kentucky does

I HATE LOUSIVLLE JUST BECAUSE IT IS LOUISVILLE


Bring it Louisville, bring it Pitino, bring your thug team to Rupp. It will be fun making it 4 in a row. What will make it better is that our team isn't anygood and/or at least appears to be a horrible team. Louisville was ranked in the pre-season top 10 just like football and we know what happen there.

We know Meeks can show up for a Louisville game
We know Joe shows up for the Louisville game
At least Louisville doesn't have to deal with WOO this year. Woo owned DUHVILLE


I hate Louisville. I will be at the game and I hope that every UK fan stands up the whole game and doesn't stop cheering even if we are lossing.

Sparks hitting game winning FT against Louisville
Joe stuffing a dunk Louisville's face two years ago
Derek Anderson sticking his nuts in Nate "OG" Johnson face
Meeks lighting them up last year
Woo looking like an All-American every time he played Louisville
Chapman putting on a show in front of M. Ali


I HATE LOUISVILLE!!!

GO BIG BLUE

AAAAHHHHHHHH C-A-T-S CATS CATS CATS

[WMR]

That's just the first post in the "I Hate Louisville" thread. It is a REALLY funny read. I encourage anyone who's a fan of UK to join that site, btw. Lots of really good info. (Hell, it's worth joining for that thread alone.)

[BoxingRed]

To be quite honest, I only mentioned Pitt and Georgetown earlier. After seeing how they played against Cincinnati, I could quite easily see Louisville also losing conference games to: Marquette, Villanova, Notre Dame, and West Virginia.

UK will lose their share of games this year, but Louisville still has quite a few beat-downs coming their way this season.

Or they could rebound from early season problems like they did last season (with a markedly weaker team), finish in the top tier of the Big East as predicted and make a nice run in the tourny.
My point is that we just don't know yet.
Maybe your bias won't allow you to concede that point. I am willing to overcome my bias, however, and say that convincing losses to Gardner-Webb and San Diego at home do not mean that UK has an outside shot at the NIT this season.:

[WMR]

Here's the post about "Adjustments":

I keep seeing the same complaint over and over.....so I want to address it.

"BCG doesn't make adjustments during the game very well".

That is such horsecrap. Billy is one of the best X's & O's coaches in the nation. Bill Self told me this as have others that are BIG 12 coaches and played him all the time. I'm going to go with those opinions....and they do match my own. Watching him coach at ATM shows what a great coach he is.

The issue is two fold.

1) You have to EXECUTE the adjustments for them to work. You have to have the players that can get it done....UK is struggling in that area due to injuries to KEY players and past injuries that have hampered practice.

2) At a point like that, you dance with the girl you brought. UK is having a HARD time executing the gameplan they PREPARED. If you can't execute what you PRACTICED ALL WEEK, then it doesn't make a lot of sense to change it up.....If the team executes it's pregame plan, there would be NO NEED to adjust. Catch 22.

Now, the facts are that BCG does make some adjustments when it's the PLAN that fails.....there is no need to adjust when its the EXECUTION that is failing.

[WMR]

Or they could rebound from early season problems like they did last season (with a markedly weaker team), finish in the top tier of the Big East as predicted and make a nice run in the tourny.
My point is that we just don't know yet.
Maybe your bias won't allow you to concede that point. I am willing to overcome my bias, however, and say that convincing losses to Gardner-Webb and San Diego at home do not mean that UK has an outside shot at the NIT this season.:

What was Louisville's pre-season ranking again???

[BoxingRed]

What was Louisville's pre-season ranking again???

What in the world does that have to do with anything?
If UK were ranked #2 right now, you'd be bragging about how stupid the pollsters were not to recognize how good the Cats are.