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Thread: Reds Arbitration Players

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Reds Arbitration Players

    With the release of Jorge Cantu last month, the Reds only have two players who are eligible for arbitration this year. The date for exchanging figures is Friday January 18th.

    The Reds who are arbitration eligible are Matt Belisle and Brandon Phillips. I think this is the first time for both, but I could be wrong about that. IIRC, last year the Reds determined Phillips contract since they couldn't reach an agreement.

    Any ideas on how we'll fare with these contracts this season?
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    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    Phillips 2 years 11 Million. Belisle. 2 years 3.25 Million. Just a guess.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    Phillips 2 years 11 Million. Belisle. 2 years 3.25 Million. Just a guess.
    The Reds will either do a 1 year deal with Phillips, or a 4 year or longer deal.

    I assume if this is Phillips first year of arbitration that he'll get a million or so, or do first year guys get closer to $2M now?

    I doubt we'll need to pay him $11M over the next 2 seasons.

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    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    The Reds will either do a 1 year deal with Phillips, or a 4 year or longer deal.

    I assume if this is Phillips first year of arbitration that he'll get a million or so, or do first year guys get closer to $2M now?

    I doubt we'll need to pay him $11M over the next 2 seasons.
    I agree. Just being a bit of a goof. I was just throwing out numbers since I had no data to work with. The Reds would be crazy not to lock Phillips up for 4 years.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    I would guess if they don't sign multi year deals, Phillips will make about $1.8M and Belisle about $500K.
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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    I just went to baseball-reference to see who Phillips compared to. A current player was Jhonny Peralta. He's a year younger, but in 2006, Cot's shows he signed a five year deal with a 6th year option. Five years $13M - $750K last year, $2.25M this year, $3.4M in '09, $4.6M in 10 and a $7M option in 2011; $2.5M buyout.

    I would guess they bought out some of his arbitration years, but it could be an indicator of where we'll need to be.
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    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    Phillips would be crazy to sign a multiyear deal, unless it was pretty favorable (big payouts in the 3rd and 4th year).

    The way the market is going, it's smart for a player to wait as long as possible before commiting. It seems as if every signing drives up the "comparables".

    On the other hand, the Reds have to be a bit cautious with Phillilps as well. Felipe Lopez had a monster year with the bat and then disappeared. Both arrived with a reputation, but then blossomed with the Reds. So, from the Reds point of view, it's a risk as well to sign Phillips long term.

    I see Phillps and Belisle signing one year deals.
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    On the other hand, the Reds have to be a bit cautious with Phillilps as well. Felipe Lopez had a monster year with the bat and then disappeared. Both arrived with a reputation, but then blossomed with the Reds. So, from the Reds point of view, it's a risk as well to sign Phillips long term.
    Lopez had one good year with the bat, but was a defensive liability.

    Phillips has had two good years with the bat,and is a defensive plus player.

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    Something clever pahster's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Phillips has had two good years with the bat...
    Not really.

    Code:
    2006		AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
    
    Phillips	.276	.324	.427	.751
    NL AVG 2B	.272	.336	.422	.758  
    
    2007
    
    Phillips	.288	.331	.485	.816  
    NL AVG 2B	.272	.341	.418	.759
    He was certainly above average in 2007, but he was slightly below average in 2006. He made far too many outs in 2006. While he made almost as high a proportion in 2007, he made up for it by hitting for a lot (for a 2B) of power.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    Quote Originally Posted by pahster View Post
    Not really.

    Code:
    2006		AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
    
    Phillips	.276	.324	.427	.751
    NL AVG 2B	.272	.336	.422	.758  
    
    2007
    
    Phillips	.288	.331	.485	.816  
    NL AVG 2B	.272	.341	.418	.759
    He was certainly above average in 2007, but he was slightly below average in 2006. He made far too many outs in 2006. While he made almost as high a proportion in 2007, he made up for it by hitting for a lot (for a 2B) of power.
    Offensively speaking, Phillips is a much better fantasy 2B than a real 2B. Don't get me wrong, he's good and an asset at his price. But he's basically Jacque Jones at the plate. The HR are a bit blinding.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    OPS is a good stat, but if he has an average OPS and is a top-five defensive second baseman, I feel comfortable saying he's one of the best second basemen in the league. Also, he's been very durable, and I think that's worth something.

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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Offensively speaking, Phillips is a much better fantasy 2B than a real 2B. Don't get me wrong, he's good and an asset at his price. But he's basically Jacque Jones at the plate. The HR are a bit blinding.
    Like Marty says, HRs are overrated

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    Something clever pahster's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    OPS is a good stat, but if he has an average OPS and is a top-five defensive second baseman, I feel comfortable saying he's one of the best second basemen in the league. Also, he's been very durable, and I think that's worth something.
    PuffyPig said he had two good years with the bat. That's all I was responding to. His durability and defense are certainly plusses. I'm just not a big fan of his on-base skills. His power certainly was nice last year. We'll see if he can keep it up.

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Like Marty says, HRs are overrated
    That's what Norris Hopper lives by.
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    Re: Reds Arbitration Players

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/conte...3/c2354204.jsp

    Phillips not fearing contract situation
    01/23/2008 9:25 PM ET
    By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

    CINCINNATI --- Brandon Phillips isn't sweating it one bit.

    The Reds second baseman could soon be facing off against his club in arbitration for the first time. Talks have yet to become fruitful about a multi-year contract that would avoid a hearing.

    No worries, Phillips says.

    "I don't really pay attention to that," Phillips said on Wednesday. "I let my agent [Seth Levinson] do that. I just say to him, 'If it's a good deal, let me know. Other than that, don't bring it to my attention.' I just want to stay happy and enjoy life. Once you worry about things, you start to get mad. I don't worry about it."

    Last week, the two sides exchanged numbers. Phillips is seeking $4.2 million for 2008 while the club counter-offered with $2.7 million -- a difference of $1.5 million. The 26-year-old, who earned $407,500 last season, has long maintained he would like to be in Cincinnati long term.

    "I want to be here the rest of my career. I like it here," Phillips said. "I want to be the Barry Larkin of this era. Barry was the one when he was with the Reds and I want to be like that also."

    Phillips was one of several Reds to appear at the annual LaSalle High School "sports stag" in Cheviot -- a precursor to Thursday's Reds Winter Caravan start. Also, at the event was outfield prospect Jay Bruce and reliever Todd Coffey while Reds great and Hall of Famer Joe Morgan served as keynote speaker.

    Last season was a breakthrough for Phillips, who batted .288 with 30 home runs, 94 RBIs and 32 steals. He joined Alfonso Soriano as the only second basemen to be a 30-homer, 30-steal player and the third in the team's history.

    Looking liked he bulked up over the offseason, Phillips hasn't had a restful offseason. In fact, he said, he turned the dial up another notch to get ready for the 2008 season.

    "I wasn't relaxed. I worked out harder and sooner," Phillips said. "[New manager] Dusty Baker called me and told me what Barry Bonds did. He took only a couple of weeks off. I want to be one of the best players in the game and decided to work out earlier. A lot of people said you've gotten more muscular. I've worked out harder this year. There's nothing wrong with trying to do better than what you did last year. I never want to stay even."

    That doesn't mean Phillips has put last season to bed completely even though he's mere weeks away from reporting to Spring Training.

    "I look at last year's tapes and see what I struggled on," he said. "I learned a lot about last year. It still comes up in my mind, especially when people keep asking me, 'What's up with 30-30? Are you going to do 40-40 this year?' I just want to have a good year and do better than I did last year. My No. 1 goal is to get to the playoffs."
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