Chad Johnson -- The definitive Thread

[RedFanAlways1966]

From Marvin...

Lewis, addressing those remarks {Chad's} on Wednesday, said, "He didn't say anything different -- that he was unduly chastised for being this or that. He's going to go back and be a pro and go forward and play. As I said then, there will be no trade of Chad Johnson. Repeat it again."

Lewis' daughter had notified him of Johnson's appearance on radio, and Lewis was not surprised by everything Johnson brought up. Asked about Johnson's attitude, Lewis said, "I can't control that. That doesn't mean anything to me right now. He's a special player and he's a Cincinnati Bengal for quite a while."

[GAC]

Why would I listen to you?

You obviously have to in order to respond. So which came first - the chicken or the egg?

[GAC]

See, I think you're giving Chad too little credit for what he contributes to the team.

I credit him for being one of the best WRs in NFL today. What else am I suppose to credit him for? The Bengal's success over these last few years Chad contributed to. That still, IMO, doesn't excuse the other stuff.

It's easy to extrapolate from his goofy endzone stuff and hall of fame jacket bs to say he's a negative influence.

Again Yachtzee - as much as I don't like those self exploiting antics, didn't I state that I don't think those particular situations (or behavior) are detrimental to the team? I just think, IMHO, it proves him to be a self promoting jerk. And over the years we've seen this type of egotistical behavior being demonstrated more and more in sports, and a majority of us don't like it. I never have.

But that's not my problem with CJ. His work ethic and passion has been repeatedly mentioned as a defense. I've never once criticized those either. But one "set" of pluses doesn't negate (or excuse) what many others see as negatives.

I've never advocated that he should be traded either.

The two incidents that get cited most, the blow up at halftime during the playoff game against Pittsburgh and his "tiff" on the sideline with Carson Palmer have both been described by all parties involved as overblown and not what the media makes them out to be.

My personal opinion of Johnson has been formed by the two incidents you mention above, plus several others.....

I don't need the media to explain those situations to me or what happened. Other then the Pitt locker room situation, which no one saw, every other situation was viewed before the cameras and on that playing field. With the Pitt situation, all we know is that something of a serious nature occurred there, and Johnson was at the center of it. Even various Bengal players confirmed this.

The sideline situation with Palmer, when it occurred, really pee-d me off. Call it a "tiff" or whatever, it still should have never happened, and confirms to me anyway that Johnson allows his emotions (not his head) to get the best of him and say/do things that don't help the team and which he later regrets and has to explain.......

Your QB just throws an INT due to crossed signals with the receiver (Johnson). And like any QB, he goes back to the sidelines and sits on the bench with his head down. The guy is obviously bummed and feels pretty rotten about what has happened. He's thinking about it and trying to get his head back into the game. The last thing he needs at this point is the receiver standing over top of him bending his ear. And I watched the whole scenario on camera. Johnson is obviously irritating Palmer because Palmer gets up and tries to walk away from him, not wanting hear it right now. And Johnson is following him and still bending his ear. CJ's facial expressions tell it all. And when the halftime whistle blows several minutes later Johnson is still going after Palmer as they walk to the locker room. Just totally uncalled for IMO.

And we know later on, because more details come out a few days later, that what CJ was bending Palmer's ear about was that Johnson felt Carson screwed up on that play, and it was all his fault. Chad later then apologizes and says he did run the wrong route. But my point is that even if it was Palmer's fault, you don't do that to your QB on the sideline.

Think sometimes before you react.

There was then the similar situation as above, but where Palmer throws an incomplete pass. Johnson, in Palmer's mind, runs the wrong route and Palmer starts streaking down the field to openly confront the guy. The only thing that stops him is one of his own players grabs Carson and restrains him. That's not a good situation. And while it doesn't prove they are mortal enemies or hate each other, it does, IMHO, show there QB-receiver relationship is not so kosher. And we have all seen evidence of this "not being on the same page" between Palmer and Johnson throughout the course of this past season.

There was the situation last year during the second half of the season when Johnson was again all keyed up and emotional because things weren't going right for him. Defenses, which have learned to respect the guy and his talent, double team him and shut him down. And they also go after the guy because during the week prior to the game he likes to utilize that very same media that everyone harps is giving Chad a had time to talk about/promote his check (or hit) list of the opposing team's secondary, and how they can't stop him. Or he sends them props like Pepto-Bismol (and that game didn't go well at all for Chad either).

These are the types of things that give head coaches nightmares, and IMO makes their job, and the team's, even harder. It's no different then when a player opens his big mouth before a game and says something stupid to disrespect an opposing team and give them bulletin board fodder to really motivate them. And even Marvin Lewis has stated in the past he doesn't like this stuff.

So any way - Chad is standing over on the sidelines and is obviously agitated. Lewis and another player tries to walk up to Johnson and talk to him. As soon as Lewis puts his hand on Chad's shoulder he jerks away and has words with Lewis. The rest of the game Chad is on one end of the sideline and Lewis is on the other.

I've never denied this guy's passion. What I've said is that his personality and emotionalism is one of immaturity, and he needs to grow up.

Marvin Lewis has alluded to selfishness, but has never stated who is selfish.

The "signals" he has given doesn't, IMO, require a rocket scientist to see who the most likely culprit is Yachtzee. Especially when he frames that selfishness in one aspect about player(s) unhappy about their money/contract. Isn't that one of the items alluded to on this thread - that Chad (or his agent) want his contract reworked? Coincidence?

It's the media that points to Chad, even though Marvin Lewis has stated that Chad is not the problem and that he likes Chad's passion.

And that's my problem with Marvin Lewis. Why even say this stuff to the media at all? He says he has no problem with Chad, yet throws out these "nuggets" through the media, and in a roundabout way tells everyone to try and figure out who it is when it points to Johnson for the most part. Then, when confronted with that, he either downplays it, pulls a typical PR job, and says something nice about Chad to try and defuse the situation.

I think you give too much credit to other Bengals players as well.

What credit was I giving other to say that I think there are other players on this team, other then CJ alone, who also have a passion to want to win.

I think there are a number of selfish guys on the team and their names are not Chad Johnson. Some of those guys don't have a right to be as frustrated as Chad because they are the cause of the frustration.

That may all be very well and true Yachtzee. Who they are we really don't know because they are not as vocal and utilize the media like Chad does. But to somehow allude that only Chad Johnson has the right to be frustrated. when IMO, everyone on this team, from the players down to the coaching staff, have that right, is giving to much to Chad.

The facts are, Chad (and TJ, who also has a strong opinion of himself and just dishes it out to opposing fans rather than the media) performs on the field and helps the team win football games. A number of Bengals have not performed on the field and have helped the Bengals lose football games.

Again, all that may very well be true. If a player(s) isn't performing up to expectations then that is the job of the coaching staff to evaluate that player(s), and if needed, replace them. What does a player openly venting, or or allowing his emotions to get him frustrated really accomplish?

If you knew more about some of the other "characters" on the Bengals, you wouldn't worry so much about Chad.

Not worried about Chad at all Yachtzee. If you'll notice, every thread on this forum that was started concerning Chad and his behavior, was started by a Bengal fan. I just simply enjoy the discussion in this boring off-season.

In fact, from what I've heard Chris Henry is far more of a disruption in the locker room than Chad, yet a lot of people seem to believe that the Bengals should trade Chad and move Henry to his spot.

And those people are who for the most part? Bengal fans. Chris Henry would be on a short leash if I was the head coach.

I think the difference between Chad and TO, Moss, and Keyshawn is that they went beyond just self-promotion. It's one thing to actively promote one's own accomplishments, but it's another to actively sabotage your own team's efforts. Moss has admitted that he took plays off and didn't give his best effort in Minnesota and Oakland. He also actively dogged the coaching staff in the middle of the season. TO openly questioned the sexuality of one of his QBs and thrashed another in public during a season where he was such a locker room disruption that caused the team to suspend him for the rest of the season.

I wasn't the one who injected the names of T.O and Moss into this discussion. Let me clarify what I meant when I said that CJ and T.O. are "two peas in a pod"....

I didn't mean for it to imply that Chad's actions have been to the same degree or severity as what these other two had done, and which you list above. Only that Chad himself has talked about wanting to emulate these guys he looks up to, and that he emulates it to the degree he is flamboyant, has an ego that thrives on self promotion, craves the attention and wants consistently to be on center stage and in the spotlight. That spotlight, which comes via the media attention, comes with a two-edged sword.

Keyshawn did a pretty good job of wearing out his welcome with the Tampa Bay Bucs. Chad's antics are harmless by comparison.

If one goes back and looks at the early first years of guys like T.O and Keyshawn, they started out pretty harmless too. And I'm not saying that CJ is headed down that same path either. Only that he has the personality that could lead him that way if he doesn't emotionally grow up IMO.

[dsmith421]

Steinbach is a good player and was a nice pickup for the Browns, but given the Benglals situation, he's not someone I would have given 50+ million. You can certainly debate whether it was worthwhile to resign the tackles for that kind of money, though.

The Bengals' salary cap numbers are already way too skewed toward offense. I have a friend who used to work for a sports agency and showed me some proprietary salary cap information he put together. The Bengals spend far below the league average at every defensive position except end (due to the Smith franchising and Geathers bonus) and are in the bottom five in terms of LB and DT. That's got to stop.

Giving Steinbach a huge extension at the expense of Willie/Levi would have been all right, but signing all three would have further robbed Peter to pay Paul, and Peter was already living at the railyard eating beans out of a can.

[Yachtzee]

The Bengals' salary cap numbers are already way too skewed toward offense. I have a friend who used to work for a sports agency and showed me some proprietary salary cap information he put together. The Bengals spend far below the league average at every defensive position except end (due to the Smith franchising and Geathers bonus) and are in the bottom five in terms of LB and DT. That's got to stop.

Giving Steinbach a huge extension at the expense of Willie/Levi would have been all right, but signing all three would have further robbed Peter to pay Paul, and Peter was already living at the railyard eating beans out of a can.

I think part of the reason why the Bengals were in that situation was because they gave Willie the hometown "reward" extension. Few teams will sign a guy his age to a long term extension, but Mike Brown is known for being loyal to his own guys, so he decided to reward Willie for his past service. The problem is that the reward still counts against the salary cap. They probably should have told Willie that if he wants to remain with the team, they'd be willing to sign him year to year like they were doing with Braham, but a long term deal at his age is not in the cards. Add to that the failure to do anything on defense and they get trapped in a position where they can't resign a very useful guy like Steinbach and have to franchise a role player like Smith, when they should be signing Steinbach and letting Smith go.

I think the Bengals should spend more money on defense, but they've also spent poorly on defense, signing some role players on the DL to starter contracts and franchising Smith, who really needs to be on a line with better players to excel. He's not a guy who carries a defense, but could be better if there were someone else there who could. They also need to free up some money by letting a DB or two go. On offense, I'd probably drop Rudi and Big Willie and see if guys like Carson and Chad wouldn't be willing to renegotiate their salaries to have a lower cap hit so that they can improve the defense. These guys already have the signing bonuses on their current contracts, so I think you need to play the cap card, telling them "Hey, we need cap space to sign some solid defensive help. Can you help out?"

[Benihana]

I've been a huge Chad fan in the past. And for most of this offseason, I've been a staunch opponent of trading him. However this last episode is pretty inexcusable. For those of you that missed it, when asked directly by the NFL Network yesterday if he would be wearing Orange and Black next year, he said, "Orange and Teal maybe. It's enough already, let's get this done. Parcells, call me man."

To me, this is the last straw. The Dolphins are reportedly interested in Hue Jackson for their Offensive Coordinator. Chad wants to play for him, and return to his hometown. At this point, much like with Corey Dillon or Takeo Spikes, you gotta get him out of here. There is talk that Miami is planning on trading the #1 overall pick to Dallas for two late first round picks (so that Jerry Jones can take McFadden.) They also have the first pick in the second round.

I say trade Chad to Miami for one of their late first round picks, plus the first pick of the second round. Draft Sedrick Ellis or Vernon Gholston (if Ellis is off the board) with the #9 overall, then go after someone like Keith Rivers or Derrick Harvery (or Dan Connor). Then with Miami's second round pick, draft Fred Davis the TE out of USC, who will help fill the hole left by Chad in the pass receiving game. Then you still have the #9 pick in the second round to continue to address the defense (or maybe the O-line.)

While I wouldn't mind trading Chad for the #1 overall (and taking Glenn Dorsey), its unrealistic because of the salary cap hit we would take in trading Chad and then paying out #1 overall money. Plus, I'm not sure that Miami would do that deal.

Bengals Add:

DT Sedrick Ellis (or DE Gholston)
LB Keith Rivers (or DE Harvery or LB Connor)
TE Fred Davis
(plus someone with the Bengals second round pick)

Bengals Lose:
WR Chad Johnson

I'm a big Chad fan but enough is enough. If a guy really doesn't want to be here, it's just going to be a cancer for the team. I think the Bengals would be better off with the above changes, especially factoring in Chad's attitude.

[Joseph]

Chad would not net a first round pick. Maybe, and its a big maybe, a 2nd rounder.

If I was a betting man though I'd say he gets nothing more than a 3rd rounder, plus a late pick 6 or 7.

His attitude and contract work against him netting a huge return.

[Bip Roberts]

Bengals arent getting the Dolphins 1st rounder but it would be nice.

Hes talking to the Miami media and its Chad Johnson. Its just how Chad ticks.

[Benihana]

Bengals arent getting the Dolphins 1st rounder but it would be nice.

Hes talking to the Miami media and its Chad Johnson. Its just how Chad ticks.

Not the #1 overall but they could get a late first round pick. If Wes Welker and Chris Chambers net second rounders, Chad would get a first, albeit a late first. The guy has led the AFC in receiving yards for four consecutive years (the only player in NFL history to do that) and he has never been in trouble with the law or had injury concerns. If he can't get at least Miami's second round pick, then I don't trade him to Miami. Period.

[Bip Roberts]

Hes not going to be traded anyways :o

[Screwball]

While I wouldn't mind trading Chad for the #1 overall (and taking Glenn Dorsey), its unrealistic because of the salary cap hit we would take in trading Chad and then paying out #1 overall money. Plus, I'm not sure that Miami would do that deal.

Bingo. I think that's the #1 reason he won't be traded. From Geoff Hobson:

For one thing, the salary cap hit would be too big for 2008, probably close to $5 million. The Bengals would have to absorb the count for three bonuses: the $10.5 million option bonus with his first extension in 2003, plus the $5 million bonus for '06 and the $3.5 million option bonus for '07 that came with the second extension in 2006.

Yes, these latest comments from Chad aggravate me, too. For someone who loves to talk as much as he does (in jest or not), it's amazing how sensitive he gets when the tables are turned. However, he's too dang good and the cap hit would be way too severe to make any sort of Chad trade practical.

[macro]

Any player that would openly declare his preference for wearing a different uniform really should not be on the roster, regardless of talent. But then there's the reality of the cap space and the "baby with the bathwater" aspect of it all...

I will be glad when it's practical to send him packing, though. I'm sick of his antics.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Any player that would openly declare his preference for wearing a different uniform really should not be on the roster, regardless of talent. But then there's the reality of the cap space and the "baby with the bathwater" aspect of it all...

I will be glad when it's practical to send him packing, though. I'm sick of his antics.

Agree. Shut the heck up and catch the passes thrown to you.

[WMR]

I guess Cedric is cool with this statement as well?

I find it absolutely deplorable.

[Ahhhorsepoo]

TJ is too slow to be a 1.. henry might get arrested tomorrow for all i know.. if we trade chad we MUST get a WR in the first or second round.. as much as i love TJ he is no 1 receiver.. he is a good slot guy, and just straight in traffic over the middle guy.. but he will never be the over the top streak threat that chad is.. too slow.. Henry has the talent to be.. but doesnt have the drive or determination.. and the rest of the receivers are just underdeveloped versions of TJ.. good slot guys nothing more..