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Thread: Chad Johnson -- The definitive Thread

  1. #196
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    I think this article is relevant to a discussion of Chad Johnson...

    Giants turn Super minus Barber's dissonant chorus: me, me, me

    Jan. 29, 2008
    By Mike Freeman
    CBSSports.com National Columnist

    PHOENIX -- A question: How does a team lose a star player -- a borderline Hall of Famer, one of the best talents in the history of the New York Giants -- and get better?

    When that player is Me-ki Barber, the answer is easy.

    "Tiki was all about Tiki," said a key Giants player, who asked not to be identified, speaking recently about the former Giants runner. "I don't get why people make this so complicated. If he was still on the team, we wouldn't be here (in the Super Bowl). Trust me on that. It would be a different locker room."

    By different the player means more splintered, more finger pointing, less unified.

    By different, he means worse.

    "It's not a coincidence that he's gone and we're here," the player said. "You're a fool if you think it is."

    And if you fail to believe that a significant number of Giants veterans aren't privately chuckling at that coincidence and even mocking Barber now, behind his back, you're a fool, too, because they are.

    Less Me-ki, they say, means more wins.

    Harsh?

    Maybe, but that is what more than a few Giants players feel and state privately. In fairness, not everyone in that locker room and around the team agrees. Ernie Accorsi, former Giants general manager who mostly built this current team and knows Barber well, was asked if he believes the Giants are better off without Me-ki.

    "My answer is the same as it is to people who say the same thing about (Jeremy) Shockey," said Accorsi, who drafted Shockey, in an e-mail to CBSSports.com. "You are never better off when you lose great players."

    He added: "I will say this. The balance that (running backs) Jacobs and Bradshaw give the running game is a key ingredient of this success. I love two backs (that) are different in style to throw at a defense."

    That is indeed part of the reason the Giants running game didn't suffer dramatically, if at all, when Me-ki took his talent and self-centeredness into retirement last season. The Giants have joined a number of other teams relying on a multi-faceted rushing attack. The varying styles of a punisher and quick back can keep a defense on its heels. The Giants this season mastered that process.

    Basically, Bradshaw and Jacobs have combined to do what Barber did, except Bradshaw and Jacobs aren't camera-hogging jerks.

    The success of the Giants minus Me-ki goes beyond the X's and O's. It's also about exes and ho's.

    First, Giants players are treating Barber like he's an ex-girlfriend. More than a few players on the team want to prove they can be successful without him and that Barber's departure was his loss, not theirs.

    Second, Barber was a media ho'. He didn't know how to step back and let quarterback Eli Manning be one of the main presences and a spokesman for the offense.

    Third, and most important, the absence of Barber -- and to some degree Shockey -- has allowed Manning to mature and become the leader of the team. This is not a new thought, but it is likely the most accurate one in explaining New York's surprising success.

    Imagine you're Eli. No longer is Shockey gyrating like Elvis and complaining if a pass doesn't go his way or is errantly thrown. No longer is Me-ki undermining you in the locker room.

    Wouldn't you get better? Wouldn't you feel more comfortable? Wouldn't you grow?

    The past dynamics and ego-sautéing in that Giants locker room are among the most fascinating I've ever seen. Many in the New York media felt Barber was a good guy, and another strong personality in the room, Michael Strahan, was a bad guy. In fact, the opposite was true. What some have long failed to realize is that teammates love Strahan while most Giants players, in my opinion, only tolerated Barber.

    People had misidentified their villains.

    So, a question, indeed: How does a team lose a star player -- a borderline Hall of Famer, one of the best talents in the history of the New York Giants -- and get better?

    Much better.

    Make it to the Super Bowl better.

    The answer: You say goodbye to Me-ki and never look back.

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  3. #197
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    Quote Originally Posted by macro View Post
    I think this article is relevant to a discussion of Chad Johnson...
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  4. #198
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    Interesting article on Barber. "Me-ki" is thrown around so much, you wonder if the author (Freeman) had a bad experience with him. My guess is he probably did.

    Those quotes from an unidentified player seem convenient too. Of course, if this is the same Mike Freeman that took part in the OSU witch-hunt a few years ago, this doesn't surprise me.

    I do get the gist of the article and how it relates to CJ, and agree with the implication that sometimes ridding yourself of the cancer may make your team less talented individually, but better collectively. I just think the whole Tiki Barber thing is pretty weak and the Giants should be past that by now.

  5. #199
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    I don't see why. Tiki certainly wouldn't let THEM get past it when it served his interests to keep on acting like an ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  6. #200
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    Here's a post I made to another audience, describing in detail what my (realistic) offseason strategy would be for the Bengals going forward. Some of it's relevant, some of it's repetitive (it includes my Chad philosophy,) some of it's not, but I thought I'd offer it anyway. Here goes:

    --
    First, no way do we take a tackle in the first round. If they feel that Willie is truly finished, then they re-sign Stacy Andrews (even though he'll get a lot of money.) They absolutely have to draft defense in the first round.

    While I would LOVE to sign Haynesworth or Suggs, you gotta remember we're talking about Mike Brown and the Bengals here, so I don't think you can count on that.

    So that leaves us with what we've got, and although I've always been a staunch defender of Chad and keeping him around, his comments yesterday finally got to me. Not sure if you got to see it, but after already asking for a trade to ESPN radio and the NFL Network, a reporter yesterday asked him if he'd be wearing orange and black next year. His response? "Orange and teal maybe. We gotta do something about this. Parcells, call me man, we can work this out." I've had enough. He's now approaching Takeo/Dillon territory, and I think we need to get him out of here before the cancer starts to spread. All reports seem to indicate that Miami is leaning towards trading their #1 overall pick to Dallas for two late first rounders (22 and 29)and a second or third rounder, so Jerry Jones can take his fellow Razorback McFadden. While I'd love to trade CJ for the #1 overall and take Dorsey, that's not gonna happen for several reasons.

    So assuming the Miami/Dallas deal goes through, I offer CJ to Miami for the Cowboys second first round pick (29 overall) and Miami's second round pick (32 overall). That would leave the Bengals with the following picks: 9,29,32,40. Here's who I'd like to target:

    9: Ellis, Gholston, Phillips (in that order)
    I want Ellis first for sure, and think he still may be there. If not him then Gholston, and if not Gholston then Phillips. I doubt Madieu re-signs with us, Dexter's washed up, and while I like the rookies you cannot count on both of them to start. Phillips isn't quite as good as fellow 'Canes Taylor or Reed, but he's only a small step down- and I'll take that.

    29: Derrick Harvey, Keith Rivers, Dan Connor, Kentwaan Balmer
    Harvey replaces Justin Smith as a real pass-rushing end to complement Geathers on the other side. Take him if you didn't draft Gholston earlier, although he'll probably be gone. Rivers is the best backer in the draft and could fall down here with a bad combine (it's a weak draft for linebackers) but it's also a big leap of faith. I don't love Connor, but you take him if you're not confident in Odell's return (which they should have a good idea of by then.) Otherwise, you're left with Kentwaan Balmer, the underachieving DT from UNC, who would be an ok consolation if Ellis was off the board at #9. He could be solid playing alongside Peko for years to come.

    32: Fred Davis
    You gotta take Fred Davis here, the TE from USC. He would fit in nicely and help cushion the blow to the passing game felt by Chad's departure. There are questions about his blocking, but you still have Reggie Kelley for running situations. If you aren't enamored with any of the choices available at 29, you take Davis there and worry about 32 later. If all the above guys are gone, Ali Highsmith or Quentin Groves would be the fallback options.

    40: Finally, with the Bengals' original second round choice, you are finally afforded the luxury of evaluating your earlier picks and taking the best player available considering what holes you've already filled. Whether that is another defender, an offensive lineman, or a wide receiver who has dropped for whatever reason (like DeSean Jackson or Mario Manningham), you take the best player available that fills an area of need.

    While having four picks in the top 40 would surely cost some serious money, the cap hit wouldn't be as big as taking a Top 5 guy. Plus, to help soften the salary cap hit, I cut Rudi this offseason, and hope that someone can emerge out of the Perry/Irons/Watson/Dorsey pack. That would be my strategy going forward.
    Go BLUE!!!

  7. #201
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    If Chad actually said that, them Marvin Lewis needs to get him on speed dial and tell him:

    "Listen Chad. You are here to play for the Bengals and the Bengals fans, not the media. I know the media threw you under the bus this season and it hurt. But they're going to do that whether you play in Cincinnati, Miami, Dallas, Washington or wherever. It's time for you to man up and get over it. You signed an extension with a big signing bonus and a big cap number. So unless you want to pay the Bengals back a lot of money, there isn't going to be a trade. Instead of talking to the media that threw you under the bus, settle down and get to work preparing for next season because we need you. If you don't want to be on the team, you can always take a vacation Thurman-style."
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  8. #202
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    With Chad's cap number, there is no way he's going to be traded. I don't even know why people bother speculating about it because it won't happen. The Bengals don't eat large cap numbers. So unless Rosenhaus can find some loophole that allows the Bengals to recover the cap space they'll blow trading Chad, he's not going anywhere. Even if he's a major pain in the butt next year, Mike Brown will keep him on the team like he did Pickens and Dillon until he has a manageable cap number.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  9. #203
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    If Chad actually said that, them Marvin Lewis needs to get him on speed dial and tell him:

    "Listen Chad. You are here to play for the Bengals and the Bengals fans, not the media. I know the media threw you under the bus this season and it hurt. But they're going to do that whether you play in Cincinnati, Miami, Dallas, Washington or wherever. It's time for you to man up and get over it. You signed an extension with a big signing bonus and a big cap number. So unless you want to pay the Bengals back a lot of money, there isn't going to be a trade. Instead of talking to the media that threw you under the bus, settle down and get to work preparing for next season because we need you. If you don't want to be on the team, you can always take a vacation Thurman-style."
    I agree; but do you think Marvin will do that? I don't.

    And concerning the "media threw him under the bus" .....

    Why does he continue to get back up and stand in front of that bus (i.e. seek out and speak to the media)? The media carries a two-edged sword. A player, regardless of who it is, has no problem trying to use that same media to promote himself; but it's not suppose to be the other way when he says or does something controversial? They are not suppose to report that? And if they do, it's seen as "going after him"?

    Why does he continue to say controversial statements, such as this, to the media when he knows it's going to be plastered all over the place and possibly cause hard feelings and maybe controversy?

    Again - I think he is his own worst enemy.

    The Bengals aren't going to trade him though, and for the obvious reasons stated above. The Bengals will do what is best for the Bengals, and rightly so.
    Last edited by GAC; 01-29-2008 at 09:04 PM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  10. #204
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    I agree; but do you think Marvin will do that? I don't.

    And concerning the "media threw him under the bus" .....

    Why does he continue to get back up and stand in front of that bus (i.e. seek out and speak to the media)? The media carries a two-edged sword. A player, regardless of who it is, has no problem trying to use that same media to promote himself; but it's not suppose to be the other way when he says or does something controversial? They are not suppose to report that? And if they do, it's seen as "going after him"?

    Why does he continue to say controversial statements, such as this, to the media when he knows it's going to be plastered all over the place and possibly cause hard feelings and maybe controversy?

    Again - I think he is his own worst enemy.

    The Bengals aren't going to trade him though, and for the obvious reasons stated above. The Bengals will do what is best for the Bengals, and rightly so.
    Yeah, I don't really understand why he running to the media when they're only going to throw it in his face if next year doesn't go well. Obviously he doesn't people looking out for his best interests, because I'm sure they would tell him that the time for being upset about this stuff is past and it's now time to move on and prepare for next season. I've been hoping against hope his previous comments were driven by frustration, something I can understand. By continuing down the TO route, all he's doing is alienating those fans who have supported him, myself included.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  11. #205
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    YouTube link to the quote:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TebMvv2JRnk

    I don't know about all this. It's tough to tell if he was serious or not. I know Miami is his hometown and all, but if Chad really was lobbying for a trade via the media, I'd think he'd ask for a team whose QB isn't Cleo-freaking-Lemon.

  12. #206
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    By continuing down the TO route, all he's doing is alienating those fans who have supported him, myself included.
    I defended Chad until this season.

  13. #207
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Here's a post I made to another audience, describing in detail what my (realistic) offseason strategy would be for the Bengals going forward. Some of it's relevant, some of it's repetitive (it includes my Chad philosophy,) some of it's not, but I thought I'd offer it anyway. Here goes:

    --
    First, no way do we take a tackle in the first round. If they feel that Willie is truly finished, then they re-sign Stacy Andrews (even though he'll get a lot of money.) They absolutely have to draft defense in the first round.

    While I would LOVE to sign Haynesworth or Suggs, you gotta remember we're talking about Mike Brown and the Bengals here, so I don't think you can count on that.

    So that leaves us with what we've got, and although I've always been a staunch defender of Chad and keeping him around, his comments yesterday finally got to me. Not sure if you got to see it, but after already asking for a trade to ESPN radio and the NFL Network, a reporter yesterday asked him if he'd be wearing orange and black next year. His response? "Orange and teal maybe. We gotta do something about this. Parcells, call me man, we can work this out." I've had enough. He's now approaching Takeo/Dillon territory, and I think we need to get him out of here before the cancer starts to spread. All reports seem to indicate that Miami is leaning towards trading their #1 overall pick to Dallas for two late first rounders (22 and 29)and a second or third rounder, so Jerry Jones can take his fellow Razorback McFadden. While I'd love to trade CJ for the #1 overall and take Dorsey, that's not gonna happen for several reasons.

    So assuming the Miami/Dallas deal goes through, I offer CJ to Miami for the Cowboys second first round pick (29 overall) and Miami's second round pick (32 overall). That would leave the Bengals with the following picks: 9,29,32,40. Here's who I'd like to target:

    9: Ellis, Gholston, Phillips (in that order)
    I want Ellis first for sure, and think he still may be there. If not him then Gholston, and if not Gholston then Phillips. I doubt Madieu re-signs with us, Dexter's washed up, and while I like the rookies you cannot count on both of them to start. Phillips isn't quite as good as fellow 'Canes Taylor or Reed, but he's only a small step down- and I'll take that.

    29: Derrick Harvey, Keith Rivers, Dan Connor, Kentwaan Balmer
    Harvey replaces Justin Smith as a real pass-rushing end to complement Geathers on the other side. Take him if you didn't draft Gholston earlier, although he'll probably be gone. Rivers is the best backer in the draft and could fall down here with a bad combine (it's a weak draft for linebackers) but it's also a big leap of faith. I don't love Connor, but you take him if you're not confident in Odell's return (which they should have a good idea of by then.) Otherwise, you're left with Kentwaan Balmer, the underachieving DT from UNC, who would be an ok consolation if Ellis was off the board at #9. He could be solid playing alongside Peko for years to come.

    32: Fred Davis
    You gotta take Fred Davis here, the TE from USC. He would fit in nicely and help cushion the blow to the passing game felt by Chad's departure. There are questions about his blocking, but you still have Reggie Kelley for running situations. If you aren't enamored with any of the choices available at 29, you take Davis there and worry about 32 later. If all the above guys are gone, Ali Highsmith or Quentin Groves would be the fallback options.

    40: Finally, with the Bengals' original second round choice, you are finally afforded the luxury of evaluating your earlier picks and taking the best player available considering what holes you've already filled. Whether that is another defender, an offensive lineman, or a wide receiver who has dropped for whatever reason (like DeSean Jackson or Mario Manningham), you take the best player available that fills an area of need.

    While having four picks in the top 40 would surely cost some serious money, the cap hit wouldn't be as big as taking a Top 5 guy. Plus, to help soften the salary cap hit, I cut Rudi this offseason, and hope that someone can emerge out of the Perry/Irons/Watson/Dorsey pack. That would be my strategy going forward.
    I'm not sure Chad should try and stay around this team. It's being quoted widely now by radio guys that 80% of the Bengals clubhouse blames the Wr's for any miscommunication between Carson and the Wr's. It seems that in the press we only hear of how this team has two teams in the clubhouse. Is that the fault of Chad and Tj or the fault of jealous players who don't get the publicity that they do? Is that a fault of Marvin for not understanding his star players like Sparky did?
    I'm not saying that I would absolve Chad and Tj of all blame, but it doesn't bode well for this team that Marvin has seemingly allowed this seperation to occur. It doesn't help when he makes public comments about Chad and TJ. I don't understand why Chad is being ripped so bad in this city for being disgusted at how quick people want to make scapegoats for the failure of others (Marvin and the FO I am looking at you). I just get sick of the same tired routine that we hear from the media when the teams in this town are losing. It's never the fault of the organization and always the fault of a few rogue players. I clearly remember Ken Griffey Jr and Barry Larkin being ripped publicly by several players and the media in 2001 for supposedly separating from the rest of the team. Writers like John Fay and Marc Curnette are always going to blame the players and not blame the organization. And I think this board is proof that fans will always lean with the organization on most matters and against the best players. Hell, these two organizations have a recent track record of complete failure and yet they are still above reproach from some posters.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  14. #208
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    Its amazing the difference in perception between two cincinnati athletes. Over Bronson's two seasons with the reds there have been countless references to how much he loved playing in and for Boston. He lives in Boston and sings in Boston about how he wants to return there. Most people tend to write that off as nothing. Chad on the other hand every grips and clings to every last word of his as the absolute truth.

  15. #209
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Its amazing the difference in perception between two cincinnati athletes. Over Bronson's two seasons with the reds there have been countless references to how much he loved playing in and for Boston. He lives in Boston and sings in Boston about how he wants to return there. Most people tend to write that off as nothing. Chad on the other hand every grips and clings to every last word of his as the absolute truth.
    I think people can somewhat sympathize with Bronson Arroyo because he's simply stating a desire to one day go back to a place where he loved to live and play. I think many of us who have moved around in our lives for work or family reasons dream of one day being able to return to a city we love. But Bronson doesn't go on and on about how people in Cincinnati don't have his back.

    What has begun rubbing me the wrong way with Chad Johnson is that he keeps talking to the media about wanting to leave not because he was treated poorly by the fans or his teammates, but because he was treated poorly by the media. Sure Daugherty wrote a mean article about him, but a lot of that "Trade Chad" stuff was coming from the national media. Yet he seems perfectly willing run to the media that hurt him and alienate the fans who have been sticking up for him. It's not the fans that want you traded, Chad. It's the media.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  16. #210
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    Re: Chad's comments about playing for the Dolphins

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    I'm not saying that I would absolve Chad and Tj of all blame, but it doesn't bode well for this team that Marvin has seemingly allowed this seperation to occur. It doesn't help when he makes public comments about Chad and TJ.
    I agree Cedric, and have stated the above in the past. Marvin Lewis has not helped this situation at all, and IMHO, at times, appears to be playing both sides of the fence.

    If there are issues, then in front of the media is not the place to settle them. Yet that is where both these guys (Marvin and Chad) play to. It can only compound things.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations


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