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Thread: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

  1. #31
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    So Bleeds likes to go to the we dont know the future so the future always sucks card? God how can any team ever build a team

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  3. #32
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    So Bleeds likes to go to the we dont know the future so the future always sucks card? God how can any team ever build a team

    Well, you want to go with the "the future's so bright, you got to wear shades" card. We've been in THAT mode for 17 years now...

    a VERY funny post from the ORG (Funny because it's TRUE!):
    red-in-la:
    Now that the Reds have a few propsects, Redzone is in love.....

    As for the rotation:


    Get me some PROVEN commodities - otherwise you're wasting an $11M/year closer, otherwise we're pinning our hopes onthe 3 P's - PROMISES, PROSPECTS AND PRAYERS


    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    Last edited by BLEEDS; 01-16-2008 at 03:03 PM.

  4. #33
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    So in fact you would rather trade all the young guys complain about salaries, ponder who is goign to replace the veterans you traded all the young guys for and then complain about not having any young guys... awesome

  5. #34
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    So just a question why is it being argued as if it is a fact that Jr and Dunn will BOTH be gone next year? I think it is more likely that only one will be gone. I think if the Red's can't sign Dunn to an extension then they'll pick up the option on Griffey.

    And as for the number 2 SP we are supposed to get, who would that be and how would we get them? There are none available via free agency and I really don't want them to give our entire farm system to the O's for Bedard. I would much rather plug our young guys into the rotation and let them get some experience.

  6. #35
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    So in fact you would rather trade all the young guys complain about salaries, ponder who is goign to replace the veterans you traded all the young guys for and then complain about not having any young guys... awesome
    you might want to look up the word "Strawman" in the dictionary...

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS

  7. #36
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    Please alert me when we are the yankees/cubs/redsox/mets then i might take your opinion as something that might be worth something. Time to file for your fan free agency because you are clearly looking for another team to be a fan of.

    Bleeds just because you think the reds havent had success in the past at building young teams and talent doesnt mean they cant do it
    Last edited by Bip Roberts; 01-16-2008 at 03:10 PM.

  8. #37
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    Please alert me when we are the yankees/cubs/redsox/mets then i might take your opinion as something that might be worth something. Time to file for your fan free agency because you are clearly looking for another team to be a fan of.
    This just in - new ownership, Jockety "special assistant to the owner", Dusty Baker new coach, Cordero signed to a 4 yr $46M deal.

    These are not "your father(Carl Lindner)'s Cincinnati Reds". They want to win now, and have increased payroll, and will (hopefully) continue to, have made trades and picked up some decent FA's and SIGNED THEIR OWN.

    You need to get with the times. They didn't do all of that to turn over 60% of their rotation to guys with less than 40 combined starts in the Majors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    Bleeds just because you think the reds havent had success in the past at building young teams and talent doesnt mean they cant do it
    You are right, but they can do it while TRADING some of that young talent so that they can WIN NOW as well as later.

    The window is closing, and WK's contract is up this year.

    Castellini promised a Winner, now, until he shows me different, that's the opinion I'm going with.

    If he doesn't make another move in 2008 for a #3 starter or above, that will be an indicator to me that he isn't.

    Then we WILL be like the Cubs - "Wait until Next Year!":thumbdown

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS

  9. #38
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    Did you just crawl out from under a rock? Krivsky has been trying to add bedard but sadly hes on the worst ran club in the majors and they are demanding Bruce + other guys which possibly include Bailey/Cueto and more. You may want to win now but you cant just piss away the future, especially when the future is full of MLB ready talent.

    So let me see if i got this right. You want to dump our young talent for a chance to maybe win this year, lose griffey and dunn next year and then have even bigger holes and go back to building for the future with no obvious MLB ready talent ready. Makes tons of sense.

  10. #39
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    Did you just crawl out from under a rock? Krivsky has been trying to add bedard but sadly hes on the worst ran club in the majors and they are demanding Bruce + other guys which possibly include Bailey/Cueto and more. You may want to win now but you cant just piss away the future, especially when the future is full of MLB ready talent.

    So let me see if i got this right. You want to dump our young talent for a chance to maybe win this year, lose griffey and dunn next year and then have even bigger holes and go back to building for the future with no obvious MLB ready talent ready. Makes tons of sense.
    Maybe you are, and you'd better watch it with the comments and the verbiage. The Men in White might come at you in a bit.

    I've laid my "plans" out many times, including this thread, so don't get hostile, and don't make specifics out of generalities, or start building strawmen.

    You don't have a plan it seems, other than HOPE and WAIT. We've been doing that for 17 years.

    Part of the reason you build a Flourishing Farm system is so you can TRADE those Prospects to help your team NOW, not always counting on the future unknowns.

    The bottom line is we DO have a TON of prospects now, but we also have a number of solid vets on both the O and SP that are in a small window. Couple that with an aggressive FO, signings of a WIN-NOW coach, and spending an UNGODLY amount on a FA closer, and all signs point to us NOT being done quite yet. NO way they're turning over this current rotation to an $11M a year closer. THAT is what would make no sense.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS

  11. #40
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    Im finished replying

  12. #41
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    Im finished replying
    Great, looks like it's time for your nap anyway.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS

  13. #42
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    Great, looks like it's time for your nap anyway.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    Oh noes please send me more PMs about personal attacks, while not listening to your own advice.

    PEACE

    -BIP ROBERTS

  14. #43
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    Even though I feel that the reds would be wise to habitually hoard/develop their own talent there are some times when trading the right package of prospects make sense. One point that is not being addressed that I think BLEEDS is touching on is the window of opportunity for this team. If you feel that it's only this year or next then making a big move makes sense, but if you think it's next year and beyond then it might be best to go in a different direction. I can assure you that Milwaukee, Chicago, St. Louis, and Houston are going to do whatever they can to compete in as short a time as possable, so simply waiting for prospects can be a risky proposition. That said, I'm still content to go with the young pitchers this season, but would still like to see the reds sign an arm saver type to protect the young guns.
    Last edited by Orenda; 01-16-2008 at 05:27 PM.

  15. #44
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    I don't see any viable options, other than wait for ST to sort things out.If needed we could then pick up a filler pitcher.You can't pay the price for any pitcher we've discussed,we're not overvaluing our prospects. The opportunity escaped when D-Backs got Haren .

  16. #45
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    Re: Needs and Luxuries: Cincinnati Reds

    I don't think it would be that hard to find a decent hitting LF in next year's FA class. Just look at this year: Shannon Stewart would have made a nice leadoff hitter, and a platoon of Brad Wilkerson and Kevin Mench would also have been very effective. BLEEDS, I think you assume we are going to get no produciton out of the spots that Dunn and Griffey vacate, which is short-minded. Suprisingly, I'm gonna have to agree with Bip Roberts on this topic...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."


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