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Thread: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Clutch Project

  1. #1
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Clutch Project

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64873

    I'd go:
    1. Edwin
    2. Phillips
    3. Griffey
    4. Dunn

    What would your list be?

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    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    Oh crap here comes the clutch debate. AGAIN.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    Not enough information to respond as "clutch" hasn't been defined for the poll. Without that, the study is a complete mess.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
    --Ted Williams

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    Go Gators!

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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    Clutch can be defined as a simple fact. Batter who we will call Bunk comes to the plate in his first 5 years in the majors in the 7th inning and on with 2 outs and runners in scoring positions that will lead to his team taking the lead and bats a combined 500 over a qualified amount of at bats of 650 at bats.

    Ya ok I'M kidding lol.
    2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing

    Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    George Grande defines clutch as "JIM EDMONDS."
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    Without getting too much into the "clutch" debate, I think Edwin's hitting style makes him "clutch", regardless of "state of mind" or "mental toughness" considerations (which the pundits like to refer to).

    As a right-handed pull hitter, Edwin puts a LOT of balls into the hole on the left side. He can even pull pitches quite a bit outside into that hole, due to his bat speed.
    Put runners on second and third or even better load the bases...and with the shortstop and third baseman playing near their bags...that hole is HUGE.

    So, it shouldn't surprise us that Edwin is "clutch", in those situations...he just hits that way. (Well, at least that's what I think).
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Not enough information to respond as "clutch" hasn't been defined for the poll. Without that, the study is a complete mess.
    Performing well in pressure situations.

    I think it is a well known definition, not one that needs an equation to define it.

  10. #9
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Performing well in pressure situations.

    I think it is a well known definition, not one that needs an equation to define it.
    Measured by....? Batting Average? RBI? Game winning RBI? OPS? Non-Strikeouts? Not being Adam Dunn?
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 01-16-2008 at 09:22 AM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    I am so glad there have been less than ten replies to this thread.

    Total waste of time.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  12. #11
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Measure by....? Batting Average? RBI? Game winning RBI? OPS? Non-Strikeouts?
    Performance based on the situation.

    I think this new stat era has to come to grips that everything doesn't have to be measured by a stat. Everyone wants to come up with the equation that trumps the previous one. Everyone wants to come up with the number that defines production.

    Maybe it doesn't exist in some instances, especially for something so subjective like "clutchness." If someone comes up with one out in the 9th, down one, men on first and third and one out and takes Mariano Rivera to 14 pitches and finally hits one in the hole where they can't turn two and the run scores, would you say that it clutch?

    I think clutch is doing what you set out to do in that given situation when the pressure is on. Reliever comes in during the 8th inning, up one, one out and a man on third. He knows he needs a K, pop up, short fly ball or ground out. Succeeding there is pretty clutch. Getting a fly ball to the warning track isn't really what you set out to do in that situation, though you still got the batter out. Launching one over the catcher's head is also less than clutch.

    Personally, I think clutchness is determined better by observing the games and situations that take place during the season. A single in the 5th inning of a blowout shouldn't count as much as a single with the bases loaded, down 2 in the 9th with 2 out. People tend to remember big situations and people coming through in those games. That's where clutchness should be measured, situations rather than a number.

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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    bottom of 9, game tied, bases loaded: I want Dunn up to walk that runner home

  14. #13
    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Measured by....? Batting Average? RBI? Game winning RBI? OPS? Non-Strikeouts? Not being Adam Dunn?
    But....one of the greatest examples of clutch in the history of this team was the grand slam by Dunn off of the Indians. Just incredible to watch.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    As a right-handed pull hitter, Edwin puts a LOT of balls into the hole on the left side. He can even pull pitches quite a bit outside into that hole, due to his bat speed.
    Put runners on second and third or even better load the bases...and with the shortstop and third baseman playing near their bags...that hole is HUGE.

    So, it shouldn't surprise us that Edwin is "clutch", in those situations...he just hits that way. (Well, at least that's what I think).

    Which explains why EE routinely has the highest batting average in the league, because he gets so many hits into that hole.......

    I have no idea what the placement of EE`s hits has to his clutchness.

    Question: What bag is the SS playing close to, as the secondbaseman would be covering 2nd if there was a runner on first.

  16. #15
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Good Thread Idea on the Sun Deck--Cluch Project

    Clutch (as defined by James) is an attempt to sell your upcoming book by publishing a seemingly controversial finding based upon just a handful of players using extremely small samples and not actually sharing the data but rather simply waxing on about your conclusions...
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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