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Thread: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

  1. #16
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    If you were Lieber and had to choose between the Reds and the Cubs, I would think this would be a no-brainer. The only way the Reds have shown to successfully attract FAs is to throw huge piles of money at them. Cordero seems to be an excellent example of that plan.

    Until the Reds are considered winners again, no FAs will want to come here unless it ridiculously helps their bottomline.

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  3. #17
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I respectfully disagree. This is a team that last year went for the big stuff, the starting pitcher, Soriano, spent a lot of bucks. Now they are wisely filling in the missing pieces, a needed lefty bat, back-end of rotation guys, extra arms for depth (in the case of Wood, a high-risk and very high-reward guy).

    This is how you try to win and, sooner or later, it will click and the Cubs will have a very big year. Maybe this year, maybe next, but soon.

    Obviously the Cubs have a financial advantage, but I find their aggressiveness refreshing. I'm just not one to bank on pitching improving because "luck" may change and the other straws that people sometimes grasp at here.
    Wood and Lieber have a recent injury history that suggests they may not be reliable. Lieber is declining. I just see both of them as high budget luxuries when cheaper, more reliable models without so much risk associated that they won't be available to pitch half the time would have a better chance at improving the team, and one of them probably won't be worth much when he does pitch.

    FYI, I appreciate the tone of your post in disagreement. That has been going downhill of late in these parts.

  4. #18
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    If you were Lieber and had to choose between the Reds and the Cubs, I would think this would be a no-brainer. The only way the Reds have shown to successfully attract FAs is to throw huge piles of money at them. Cordero seems to be an excellent example of that plan.

    Until the Reds are considered winners again, no FAs will want to come here unless it ridiculously helps their bottomline.
    This has been my opinion for quite some time. Lieber just isn't a guy I'd want the Reds to overpay for. He isn't outstanding to start with, and he has health concerns on top of that.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  5. #19
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    Lieber's history in Chicago may have had something to do with it. I want to see how much the contract was for as well. The Reds may not have had much of a chance.
    The Reds were probably "used" as fodder. If I was at the end of my career and had to choose between pitching in Cincy or Chicago I would take Chicago in a heartbeat. Especially if I had pitched at Wrigley before and had a good measure of success.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  6. #20
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    The Reds were probably "used" as fodder. If I was at the end of my career and had to choose between pitching in Cincy or Chicago I would take Chicago in a heartbeat. Especially if I had pitched at Wrigley before and had a good measure of success.
    Dude, WE have Dusty.

  7. #21
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post

    FYI, I appreciate the tone of your post in disagreement. That has been going downhill of late in these parts.
    I sense a lot of frustration. For all the enjoyment of watching the Reds add a top announcer (last year), a name manager, a top executive, and even a top closer, for those of us who have followed the team for decades the promise of this off-season seems to be fading.

    Whether we admit it or not, everyone is anticipating one more big move and it either isn't happening, or is just taking forever.

    Somehow I think the Reds are still targeting a big fish (or bird?) but, I admit, as time goes on it's becoming less likely.

  8. #22
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    Dude, WE have Dusty.
    So true, So true!
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

  9. #23
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Last off-season, the Cubs spent millions and millions of dollars just to make them an average NL team. What they've added so far this off-season is making them only a little above average (which makes them the team to beat in the NL Central).

    In 2009, the Cubs will be paying over $100M between eight different players (Zambrano, Ramirez, Soriano, Lee, Fukudome, Lilly, Marquis, and DeRosa). That's also not to mention what players like Matt Murton, Rich Hill, Ryan Theriot, Sean Marshall, etc. could be making in arbitration. What I'm getting at is that I don't really see much strategy from the Cubs' front office. It just seems to me that they're throwing money at people, and it's only a matter of time before their salary efficiency will be similar to the Yankees' (which is simply pathetic).

  10. #24
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Last off-season, the Cubs spent millions and millions of dollars just to make them an average NL team. What they've added so far this off-season is making them only a little above average (which makes them the team to beat in the NL Central).

    In 2009, the Cubs will be paying over $100M between eight different players (Zambrano, Ramirez, Soriano, Lee, Fukudome, Lilly, Marquis, and DeRosa). That's also not to mention what players like Matt Murton, Rich Hill, Ryan Theriot, Sean Marshall, etc. could be making in arbitration. What I'm getting at is that I don't really see much strategy from the Cubs' front office. It just seems to me that they're throwing money at people, and it's only a matter of time before their salary efficiency will be similar to the Yankees' (which is simply pathetic).
    You never know, but the talent level seems pretty high to me. Whether all of it will mesh, don't know, but if I were a Cub fan I would be pretty happy about how hard they are trying.

  11. #25
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Last off-season, the Cubs spent millions and millions of dollars just to make them an average NL team. What they've added so far this off-season is making them only a little above average (which makes them the team to beat in the NL Central).

    In 2009, the Cubs will be paying over $100M between eight different players (Zambrano, Ramirez, Soriano, Lee, Fukudome, Lilly, Marquis, and DeRosa). That's also not to mention what players like Matt Murton, Rich Hill, Ryan Theriot, Sean Marshall, etc. could be making in arbitration. What I'm getting at is that I don't really see much strategy from the Cubs' front office. It just seems to me that they're throwing money at people, and it's only a matter of time before their salary efficiency will be similar to the Yankees' (which is simply pathetic).
    If you have the money, who cares about efficiency? While I'm certainly keen on staying fiscally responsible, with the sport awash in cash, efficiency is a secondary consideration to talent.

    In terms of their "average" status. Their pythag of 87 wins puts them just 4 wins behind the Rockies, who were first in the NL with 91. The average NL team had 80 pythag wins. The cubs are right there with the NL elite and this move only helps.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #26
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    I remember reading that Hendry offered Marshall and a prospect for Hamilton and Krivsky said no.

  13. #27
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Darnit. I was hoping he would be the veteran we would sign for a one-year deal to fill out our rotation. And instead he goes to a divisional rival and we're still stuck with our "not ready for prime time... not even ready for day games" starting rotation. Harang, then a small question mark, then HUGE question mark, followed by HUGE and HUGE question marks.

  14. #28
    Something clever pahster's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Darnit. I was hoping he would be the veteran we would sign for a one-year deal to fill out our rotation. And instead he goes to a divisional rival and we're still stuck with our "not ready for prime time... not even ready for day games" starting rotation. Harang, then a small question mark, then HUGE question mark, followed by HUGE and HUGE question marks.
    You think Arroyo is a question mark?

  15. #29
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    Quote Originally Posted by pahster View Post
    You think Arroyo is a question mark?
    I think he is a small question mark and let me explain. As a No. 3, I love Bronson Arroyo. As a No. 2 -- which he clearly is with this current roster -- I have small concerns. Still like him, but can't say I'm completely comfortable with him being our No. 2. He is a good, solid No. 3 IMO and we're not quite ready for prime time if he's our No. 2 and Belisle is our No. 3.

  16. #30
    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Sign Jon Lieber

    I think we could have beat this easily. Seems like we missed the best/cheapest option this year.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3199601

    CHICAGO -- Jon Lieber, a 20-game winner for the Chicago Cubs in 2001, rejoined the team Wednesday by agreeing to a $3.5 million, one-year contract.




    Lieber

    The right-hander will go to spring training next month with a chance to compete for a spot in the starting rotation. He can earn performance bonuses based on games started and innings pitched this season.

    The 37-year-old Lieber is 129-121 with a 4.28 ERA in 375 major-league appearances, including 321 starts. He was 48-36 with the Cubs from 1999-2002, including 20-6 with a 3.80 ERA in 2001 when he made the NL All-Star team.

    He has also pitched for the Pittsburgh Pirates and New York Yankees but spent the last three seasons with the Philadelphia Phillies. He won 17 games in 2005 for Philadelphia but has had his last two seasons marred by injuries. He missed six weeks in 2006 with a strained groin, and he missed the final three months last season with a tendon injury in his foot. He had surgery and his season ended June 20.

    Lieber also had elbow ligament replacement surgery in 2002 that forced him to miss the 2003 season. He returned in 2004 and went 14-8 with a 4.33 ERA for the Yankees.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.


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