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Thread: I think we should trade palmer

  1. #31
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Quote Originally Posted by rotnoid View Post
    A first round draft choice as oft injured as Perry certainly qualifies as a bust in most eyes.
    Bust seems just to be the wrong word :o

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  3. #32
    Boom Goes the Dynamite Screwball's Avatar
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Comparing this season with previous seasons, I don't see where he had a really bad year, other then his INTs were up. He threw for the most yardage he ever has (4131).

    And one of the causes IMO is that the Bengals offensive line was weaker this year then in previous, due guys being injured or lost in the off-season. Players like Steinbach were missed.
    I believe they actually set a franchise record for least sacks given up in a season (17). And that's down from 36 (!) given up in the year before when the line was decimated with injuries (most notably Rich Braham). I do think the line struggled in run blocking (that's where we really missed Steinbach and, not to mention, Willie Anderson) much moreso, although a lot of that could just seem like it due to Rudi J's individual ineffectiveness.

    And yet, despite that franchise record, Carson threw 20 INTs, or just five less than the last two years combined. Given the importance of turnovers in the NFL, and Carson may have actually cost us a game or two (the Arizona game comes to mind) by himself. That's just not like him.

    Personally though, I agree with you in that I don't think he had a particularly bad year overall. Not by any reasonable benchmarks anyway. In fact, I'd argue he's largely a victim of his own lofty standards. 26 TDs, 65% completion percentage, 4,100+ yards and an 87 passer rating are dang good numbers all things considered. It's just that when you factor in the INTs, he had a down year compared to '06 and certainly '05. Or, in other words, he didn't turn in Superman performances like so many have come to expect of him week in and week out.

  4. #33
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    You cant tell me you wouldnt rather have Big Ben... Bengals scouting once again makes more mistakes that proves why they are the joke of the NFL.
    I'd take Carson Palmer over Big Ben 100 times out of 100
    Most Vottomatic Player

  5. #34
    The Future GoReds33's Avatar
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Degenerate39 View Post
    I'd take Carson Palmer over Big Ben 100 times out of 100
    I wouldn't. Ben is younger, and had a better statistical season. If anything, they are equals.
    If you can't build a winning team with that core a fire-sale isn't the solution. Selling the franchise, moving them to Nashville and converting GABP into a used car lot is.
    -LTlabner

  6. #35
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds33 View Post
    I wouldn't. Ben is younger, and had a better statistical season. If anything, they are equals.
    They are different style QBs.

    Code:
    QB Comparison
    
    Player	G	Comp/G	Att/G	%	Yds/G	Avg/Att.	TD:INT	Sack	RTG	RushYds/G	RushTD
    Carson	61	21		33	64%	244	7.3	1.65	97	90.1	2.21		2	
    Ben	56	16		25	63%	208	8.1	1.56	146	92.5	9.19		8
    Calling them equal is a hard thing to do b/c of their different styles. Carson is your prototypical lack of mobility pocket passer. His success is determined through the air, and by not making mistakes. Ben is what I like to call a mobile pocket passer. Defenses leaguewide have to respect his legs, while simultaneously respecting his arm. The strength of Pitt's running game allows Ben to not have to throw the ball so much a game. Ben's in a system that is 54% run/46% pass. Carson's in a system that is 58% pass/42% run. Carson has to throw the ball due to the Bengals having a lack of a legitimate ground threat.

    As a passer, I think Carson has the edge. As a complete QB, I think Ben has a noticeable advantage.

  7. #36
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds33 View Post
    I wouldn't. Ben is younger, and had a better statistical season. If anything, they are equals.
    Wow

  8. #37
    Member redhawkfish's Avatar
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Wow! Another Ben/Carson debate! I think every board I visit has this argument. I personally think its cool that fans of both teams will get too see a true rivalry between two excellent quarterbacks for many years. Just think of all the QB's Bengal fans had to endure since Boomer, and the ones the Steeler's had since Bradshaw.

    I would love to know the record of total games two QB's have played in against each other.

  9. #38
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    Its hard to call players who have been injured "bust" especially how good he was when he wasn't injured.
    You must be referring to his Michigan years, because since he's been a Bengal, even when he wasn't hurt and did play, his performance was pretty spotty. In four years the guy has played in 22 games, and 14 of those were in 2005 where he didn't exactly put up stellar numbers.

    The guy has been a bust, regardless if injury is the cause.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  10. #39
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Every team in the NFL would want a quarterback like Carson Palmer. I am not a Bengals fan, but if I was, I would do everything reasonable to keep my franchise quarterback.

  11. #40
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    You must be referring to his Michigan years, because since he's been a Bengal, even when he wasn't hurt and did play, his performance was pretty spotty. In four years the guy has played in 22 games, and 14 of those were in 2005 where he didn't exactly put up stellar numbers.

    The guy has been a bust, regardless if injury is the cause.
    For what his roll was he put up great numbers. 51 receptions and 4.6 ypc on the ground and was a huge part of our offense in 05

  12. #41
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    For what his roll was he put up great numbers. 51 receptions and 4.6 ypc on the ground and was a huge part of our offense in 05
    A pretty small window.

    Ki-jana Carter, who everyone would agree was a bust in his injury plagued 4 years with the Bengals, had a 5.4 YPC.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  13. #42
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    A pretty small window.

    Ki-jana Carter, who everyone would agree was a bust in his injury plagued 4 years with the Bengals, had a 5.4 YPC.
    Im not saying Perry hasnt been disappointing, im just saying I dont think injuries make a player a bust. I think bust is more because he just couldnt hack it talent wise in the NFL.

    Its a pointless argument i regret starting

  14. #43
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    To me, a "bust" does not necessarily, in every instance, say it's the player's fault. It just simply means that they came in with high expectations, such as a #1 pick who possessed immense talent while in college, and for whatever reason(s) it didn't pan out.

    The league, historically, has been scattered with them. Especially at QB....Rick Mirer, David Klingler, Joey Harrington, Heath Shuler, Todd Marinovich,
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  15. #44
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    I wasn't sure whether to put this in a new thread or not, but it seems to go with any Palmer discussion so I just went ahead and put it in this one. From Mark Curnutte's blog:

    It's estimated that 80 percent of the Palmer throws in 2007 that looked errant were indeed the responsibility of receivers running the incorrect route, even by a yard or two. The line protected the quick-thinking Palmer, who rarely holds onto the football too long, with a frachise single-season low 17 sacks. The team's receivers need to regain the route-running discipline that abandoned them too frequently this past season. A consistent run offense also would help.
    I'm not sure how accurate these "80% estimations" are, but if they're in the ballpark it gives me a new perscpective on the passing offense. It's hard to imagine WRs as talented and experienced as TJ and Chad (not to mention Henry, Chatman, Tab Perry, etc.) lacking the discipline to run crisp, precise routes, yet a few key incompletions and INTs (Pats game before the half) seem to support the notion.

    If only Hue Jackson would come back...

  16. #45
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: I think we should trade palmer

    If that's true, it's beyond pathetic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"



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