Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 41

Thread: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

  1. #1
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    4,716

    We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    The Reds are pretty close to being contenders in 2008 and IMHO we're two players away. Neither of which will be overly expensive.

    1. Starting pitcher. Even with Affeldt on his way, he is a swingman with a possibility of being in the rotation. A one-year deal for a veteran like Colon (not necessarily him, just throwing out an example) would be ideal. One could make the argument that our rotation is already set and the Reds won't add another starting pitcher to the fold. But there is nothing wrong with spending around $5 million on another starter leaving Belisle, Affeldt, Volquez, Bailey ad Cueto to fight for the remaining two spots. If Bailey and/or Cueto aren't ready, they can go to AAA. If Affeldt doesn't make the rotation, he goes to the 'pen (where he's probably going to be most effective anyway, even though he was given a promise to be given a shot to make the rotation). If Belisle doesn't make the rotation, he goes to the pen. If Volquez doesn't make the rotation, he can go to AAA or the pen. However, two of them are going to make it for sure and it will be three if we don't sign someone else. Any way you want to look at it, unless you love our current rotation, I think we need to add another starter. Nothing bank-breaking and not a trade that will cripple our farm system. Just whatever we can find that's left on the FA market, and yes I know there isn't much to choose from. Find the best deal you can get and make it. And hopefully it's not Livan Hernandez. Ha. But honestly that would be better than doing nothing (and I'm sure many would disagree).

    2. A right-handed hitter, preferably an OF (and someone who can play 1B and maybe even 3B in an emergency). Again, not someone who is going to break the bank, far from it. Said player would know he would be coming here as a reserve with a chance to get a lot of ABs if things fall right. Some people have mentioned Morgan Ensberg. That is a good example. Although I would prefer an OF. But someone like that is what I'm talking about. A RHH with some pop to come off the bench. I like having Keppinger and Hopper on our bench, but they have no pop. Get someone with some pop and suddenly we have a pretty damn strong bench because the other parts are in place (crazy utility man in Freel, high OBP OF in Hopper, high OBP INF in Keppinger, decent backup catcher in Valentin).

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,681

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    A RHH with some pop to come off the bench. I like having Keppinger and Hopper on our bench, but they have no pop. Get someone with some pop and suddenly we have a pretty damn strong bench because the other parts are in place (crazy utility man in Freel, high OBP OF in Hopper, high OBP INF in Keppinger, decent backup catcher in Valentin).
    FWIW, that means Bruce is the starting CF,and Hatteberg is gone.

  4. #3
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    Edinson Volquez is a huge key to the Reds chances of success in 2008 IMO. We already know Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo are going to give us 400 innings of 4.00 ERA or better. Matt Belisle should improve as the stats indicate he will. That's two very good starters plus a solid number three. That's where Volquez steps into the picture. If Volquez can put it together (and his AA/AAA numbers plus his last month of 2007 suggest he could), then this Reds club could compete for the NL Central. I am a huge fan of his and my expectations are that he will step up and surprise a lot of folks. I'm expecting around 175 innings with an ERA around 4.00 and 150+ strikeouts. He definitely has the stuff to do that and I was encouraged enough by his latest major league showcase to have the faith in him to develop into a good major league starter in 2008.

  5. #4
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,078

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    I'd like to see the following:

    Sign Livan Hernandez for 1 year 6 million w/ a guaranteed option for 2009 if he meets a certain win and innings total.

    Sign Kevin Mench for 1 year 2.5 million deal

    That would mean Affeldt and Belisle would join the pen with Volquez netting the #5 spot. Having Bailey and Cueto start the year in AAA. Also the trading of Ryan Freel and the release of Mike Stanton and Juan Castro. That's a pipe dream and would cost the Reds about 10 million or more to make those type of moves.. which is why I think we might now see a trade of some prospect pitches for a veteran starter.
    Last edited by RedLegSuperStar; 01-20-2008 at 06:15 PM.
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


    2008 Reds Record When I Attend: 9W - 5L

    2009 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 2L

    2010 Reds Record When I Attend: 1W - 0L

    2011 Reds Record When I Attend: 0W - 1L

  6. #5
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    4,716

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    FWIW, that means Bruce is the starting CF,and Hatteberg is gone.
    Bruce is definitely the starting CF IMO (no matter what the front office is saying right now).

    I wouldn't mind seeing Hatte stay, but if we can get a trade for him, that would probably be best. No reason to have 2 LHH 1B.

  7. #6
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    4,716

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Edinson Volquez is a huge key to the Reds chances of success in 2008 IMO. We already know Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo are going to give us 400 innings of 4.00 ERA or better. Matt Belisle should improve as the stats indicate he will. That's two very good starters plus a solid number three. That's where Volquez steps into the picture. If Volquez can put it together (and his AA/AAA numbers plus his last month of 2007 suggest he could), then this Reds club could compete for the NL Central. I am a huge fan of his and my expectations are that he will step up and surprise a lot of folks. I'm expecting around 175 innings with an ERA around 4.00 and 150+ strikeouts. He definitely has the stuff to do that and I was encouraged enough by his latest major league showcase to have the faith in him to develop into a good major league starter in 2008.
    I like your optimism. I see you like our rotation 1-4 of Harang, Arroyo, Belisle and Volquez. And hopefully that works out well and everyone stays healthy and gets the job done. But even if that happens, that leaves another spot to fill between Affeldt, Bailey and Cueto. And what if there is an injury or two? Which is bound to happen when you're talking about pitchers.

    I think there is strength in numbers and the Reds should add another starter. In a perfect world, what we have now would be enough. But factoring in injuries and the simple fact that probably one or two of them isn't going to be ready to be reliable starters, I think another starter is needed. And not a swingman who can possibly start or pitch in relief. A starter that the Reds think they can get 175 innings out of.

  8. #7
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    4,716

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    I'd like to see the following:

    Sign Livan Hernandez for 1 year 6 million w/ a guaranteed option for 2009 if he meets a certain win and innings total.

    Sign Kevin Mench for 1 year 2.5 million deal

    That would mean Affeldt and Belisle would join the pen with Volquez netting the #5 spot. Having Bailey and Cueto start the year in AAA. Also the trading of Ryan Freel and the release of Mike Stanton and Juan Castro. That's a pipe dream and would cost the Reds about 10 million or more to make those type of moves.. which is why I think we might now see a trade of some prospect pitches for a veteran starter.
    I like it. Not a big fan of Hernandez, but I would rather have him than not for depth. You have to count on 1-2 injuries when you're projecting a starting rotation IMO. Just hopefully Harang is not involved.

  9. #8
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    I also expect some improvement out of Homer Bailey this year. He too pitched well toward the end of the year and the stuff is there for him to contribute. I don't expect an ace type year out of him this season or anything like that, but I do think we'll see some improvement. A 4.50-4.65 ERA and 7.0 K/9 would be suitable enough for me. I don't expect a 21-year old kid to come out and dominate out of the gates like most people on here do. I don't really expect him to fully tap into his potential right away; I've always thought it would probably be around 2009 or 2010 before he became what many people expect him to be.

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    6,070

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    I think the Reds could conceivably make a run at the division (it is the NL Central afterall) as they are if the stars align right and at least three from among Belisle, Affeldt, Volquez, Bailey, Cueto and Maloney have league average seasons (or better). I don't know that adding any of ththe remaining FA pitchers improve our chances appreciably.

    I think the addition of Morgan Ensberg (or similar right-handed bat off the bench) is needed regardless.

    A deal for Bedard (or similar 1 or 2 starter) for Bailey and some other minor leaguers would make the Reds odds-on divisional favorites IMO, but don't see it happening. I just don't think anything short of that does much to improve their chances though.

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    13,790

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    The right handed hitter needs to play first base. Neither Votto nor Hatteberg should play first against lefties. The Reds need a power righty bat there.

    Once it is established that Votto is the first baseman, the Reds have a far greater need for a righty bat backing him up than for Hatte. I'm sure there are better situations for Hatteberg, who is still too good to be a backup to another lefty hitting first baseman.

    Ensberg would seem ideal because he hits lefty pitching so well. Haven't heard any rumors about him, wonder if the Reds are players for his services next year.

  12. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    4,086

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Once it is established that Votto is the first baseman, the Reds have a far greater need for a righty bat backing him up than for Hatte.
    Why??? Hatte hit 205/244/333 vs. LH last year. That is dreadful. Votto hit 269/296/346. He had one less hit vs. LH than Hatte did in 13 fewer AB's. I'm not saying that Votto is much better. But in AAA he hit 242/354/325 vs. LH, again not good, but better than Hatteberg. Certainly not a greater need. Also, I would let Votto play vs. LH til he proves he can't hit them. He's a rookie with an incredible work ethic, give him a chance to hit LH first.

  13. #12
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,039

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51 View Post
    Why??? Hatte hit 205/244/333 vs. LH last year. That is dreadful. Votto hit 269/296/346. He had one less hit vs. LH than Hatte did in 13 fewer AB's. I'm not saying that Votto is much better. But in AAA he hit 242/354/325 vs. LH, again not good, but better than Hatteberg. Certainly not a greater need. Also, I would let Votto play vs. LH til he proves he can't hit them. He's a rookie with an incredible work ethic, give him a chance to hit LH first.
    The point is that once Votto proves he can carry his weight versus righties, Hatteberg no longer adds value to the roster. Sure, maybe Votto can hit lefties, but that's beside the point. The real issue is that having both Votto and Hatteberg is inefficient as they seem to have to same strengths and limitations.

    Assuming Votto is the starter, Hatteberg's roster spot is better used on somebody who is more complimentary -- specifically addressing the need of a RH bat with pop off the bench and possibly as a 1B platoon partner.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #13
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    portland, oregon
    Posts
    14,747

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    The point is that once Votto proves he can carry his weight versus righties, Hatteberg no longer adds value to the roster. Sure, maybe Votto can hit lefties, but that's beside the point. The real issue is that having both Votto and Hatteberg is inefficient as they seem to have to same strengths and limitations.

    Assuming Votto is the starter, Hatteberg's roster spot is better used on somebody who is more complimentary -- specifically addressing the need of a RH bat with pop off the bench and possibly as a 1B platoon partner.
    Pretty much all teams carry a LH pinch hitter. While that player is optimally not your 3rd 1st baseman, it is still a need that should be addressed and right now Hatteberg is the best candidate for that job. The fact that he is a 1st baseman is at least partially mitigated by the fact that the RH platoon partner at 1b can play all the other IF positions as well.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  15. #14
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,960

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    The point is that once Votto proves he can carry his weight versus righties, Hatteberg no longer adds value to the roster. Sure, maybe Votto can hit lefties, but that's beside the point. The real issue is that having both Votto and Hatteberg is inefficient as they seem to have to same strengths and limitations.

    Assuming Votto is the starter, Hatteberg's roster spot is better used on somebody who is more complimentary -- specifically addressing the need of a RH bat with pop off the bench and possibly as a 1B platoon partner.
    I'm not sure how the 25 man roster is going to shake out, but couldn't he still be valuable as a pinch-hitting lefty?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  16. #15
    Man Pills
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    25,000

    Re: We're two players away IMHO (and it won't cost much)

    My biggest concern, at this point, is that the Reds will overlook opportunities to help the team in real, attainable ways (Mike Cameron) in an attempt to shoot the axheads with one arrow. Barring another Volquez (a long shot) or a Bedard (a near-impossibility), the Reds must re-think their strategy if they want to contend in 08: bullpen, offense, defense. The time grows short.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25