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Thread: Trouble in Steeler Country

  1. #46
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble in Steeler Country

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    How can I read this wrong, or how can you say that I'm just making it up that you said it?
    Because you've been real good at reading what people say wrong or inserting huge assumptions.

    I said this.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    No, maybe they aren't "pass happy" or over-dependent on the pass, like some teams have to do due to a lack of a consistent running game, because Pitt has balance on the offensiive side. That's what teams strive for.
    Notice the emphasis on "some". Where did I say (as you did below) that every QB ahead of him is therefore pass happy? Again, a huge leap on your part and not what I was saying. I specifically stated that SOME teams were dependent upon their passing game because they lacked, or could not establish, a consistent running game. They were therefore forced to be more dependent on the run. Other teams just passed more because they do. That's their system. All are different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    He threw barely over 400 times this season. 15 NFL QBs were a head of him. Dont give me that 15 other NFL teams are just pass happy or over-dependent.


    Your response to me saying until the last couple of years he was throwing like 16 attempts per game is to combine 4 years of stats and then say that its well more than 16?
    Go back and look it up yourself.

    Ben has only been in the league 4 years!

    individual years.....

    2004 - 22.4 PA/game
    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...ue&Submit=Find

    2005 - 23.7 PA/game
    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...ue&Submit=Find

    2006 - 32.7 PA/game
    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...ue&Submit=Find

    2007 - 27.6 PA/game
    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...ue&Submit=Find

    Do the simple math. Actually, because I rounded the numbers off earlier, over his 4 year career, Ben averages 26.6 PA's/game.

    Where did you get the 16 PAs/game at again?

    Please try to explain to me why the Steelers run the ball so many more times than they throw it if it wasn't the case.
    First off - I was wrong when I said that Pitt passed the ball 63.8%. I read the wrong column. My mistake. But I have already acknowledged that Pitt is a run-oriented team.

    In 2007, Pitt made 27.6 passing attempts/game and 31.9 rushing attempts/game. You're talking a disparity of a little over 4 attempts in difference. They passed for 3,071 yards, and rushed for 2,168 yards. That is what I meant when I contend they have offensive balance, or at least strive for it better then alot of teams.
    Last edited by GAC; 02-01-2008 at 09:11 PM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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  3. #47
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    Re: Trouble in Steeler Country

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    Yea im not saying Ben is as bad as the guys you named. Hes good enough to keep them going and fits the team much better than those other guys.
    Yeah. Just "good enough to keep them going". Give me a break.

    They won nothing since the Steel Curtain? Do you mean they just didnt win SBs or were they flat out terrible? Hmm...
    If you don't win Super Bowls then you've won nothing. My point holds. The Steelers have had far better defenses prior to Roethlisberger's tenure, yet they weren't able to take that next step to a ring until some kid joined the fray and became the youngest QB to ever win a Super Bowl. Along the way, he produced an excellent passer rating of 98.6 (third in the NFL) during the regular season and even including a poor Super Bowl performance, he led the NFL in postseason QB rating.

    Even this year, Pittsburgh's defense was porous versus good teams. The Special Teams' play was atrocious (and cost them many games, including the Jax playoff game). The offensive line was bad in pass protection. Yet, despite all that, Roethisberger set Steelers passing records and led the team to the playoffs. He performed poorly in the first half of the Jax playoff game, but then led the team back to a lead in the final minutes of the second half. And the vaunted defense you give so much credit to gave the game away. Again. Like so many times during the 2007 season.

    Roethisberger, almost by sheer will alone, got that team to the playoffs and almost won that playoff game against a better team. Yet, according to you he's just a spare part that can easily be replaced because the rest of the team is just pure awesomeness. It's quite obvious that you don't have the first clue about who the Steelers were this season and you have yet to address any relevant point I've made about the challenges Roethisberger has faced.

    Does winning a SB makes you automatically better than anyone who hasnt won a SB?
    That's a ridiculous question and an attempt at a strawman at the same time. You'll have to excuse me for not positioning Ben Roethisberger as a better QB than Dan Marino. Anything else left in your bag of tricks that I can quite easily debunk?
    Last edited by SteelSD; 02-02-2008 at 12:22 AM.
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    Re: Trouble in Steeler Country

    Some NFL teams are pass happy.. That would mean, at least to me, that its a couple. A couple isnt 15 other QBs.


    I honestly am tired of arguing, You guys win Ben is the quite possibly the best QB in the NFL and with out him the steelers would be flat out awful barely winnings 4 games a year.



    Im sorry I cant argue against 2 people who say almost the opposite things.


    Where did I say hes a spare part? Quit putting words in my mouth. I said hes a good QB, its just the running game and the D are much more important to their success than his QB play.
    Last edited by Bip Roberts; 02-02-2008 at 02:45 AM.

  5. #49
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble in Steeler Country

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    Some NFL teams are pass happy.
    Yep. That's what I said..... SOME are.

    That would mean, at least to me, that its a couple.
    Since when does "some" mean only a couple? It could be three or four, or five or six.

    some[suhm; unstressed suhm]: an unspecified number, amount, etc., as distinguished from the rest.

    A couple isnt 15 other QBs.
    I'm glad you finally figured that out. You were the one who threw out the 15 other QB figure.

    Quit putting words in my mouth.
    You had no problem putting them in mine.

    I said hes a good QB, its just the running game and the D are much more important to their success than his QB play.
    And all we've asked you to do is show some evidence to back that claim up. And you haven't yet.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  6. #50
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    Re: Trouble in Steeler Country

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Yep. That's what I said..... SOME are.



    Since when does "some" mean only a couple? It could be three or four, or five or six.

    some[suhm; unstressed suhm]: an unspecified number, amount, etc., as distinguished from the rest.



    I'm glad you finally figured that out. You were the one who threw out the 15 other QB figure.



    You had no problem putting them in mine.



    And all we've asked you to do is show some evidence to back that claim up. And you haven't yet.
    A couple, a few, some. My point was to say that you said some are pass happy and to me that doesn't mean a large number of them. When you pass for on average a couple or so more attempts per game than the Vince young you will find it hard to convince me that it just happens to be a lot of pass happy teams out there.

    Ive said plenty of facts, unlike you mine are actually correct.

  7. #51
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Trouble in Steeler Country

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    A couple, a few, some. My point was to say that you said some are pass happy and to me that doesn't mean a large number of them.
    What does it matter how many there are? Why is it so significant to you to have to assign some exact number in this instance?

    You can continue to assign any numerical amount to "some" all you want, because all it proves is that my original point either went way over your head.... that the reason some teams have more pass attempts then others, like a Cincy, GB, N.O, Seattle, is because of the lack or mediocracy in their running game. Why you're having a hard time grasping that is beyond me. Yet you continue to wander off on these tangents.

    or

    You make statements and throw things out there, knowing full well it's only your subjective bias, and that you have no intention of ever trying to back them up with facts or substance, because as Steel stated - you just like to argue.

    When you pass for on average a couple or so more attempts per game than the Vince young you will find it hard to convince me that it just happens to be a lot of pass happy teams out there.
    That's because you're under the delusion that guys like Young (and Ben) didn't throw much during a game.

    How many pass attempts per game did Vince Young average this year? The answer? 25.5. Ben? 26.9

    Again - where did that 16 you gave come from?

    What is the NFL league average on pass attempts/game? 26.4

    Here, do the math..... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...0&d-447263-p=1

    I did.


    Ive said plenty of facts, unlike you mine are actually correct.
    No. Face it. The bottomline is - you can't stand Ben Roethlisberger because he plays for a dreaded and hated division rival. A division rival that has pretty much dominated the rest within the division for quite some time (for the most part). And it eats at fans like you. So you feel you must somehow degrade the guy, because he is the opposition, by fabricating and making comments such as he's the "least important part of that team" (which is such a laughable statement), as well as other "facts", based solely on that premise alone.

    And every time the statistical evidence refutes your claims, and I've provided you with links to back that up....you try to change the subject or twist the words of those countering you.
    Last edited by GAC; 02-02-2008 at 08:10 PM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  8. #52
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    Re: Trouble in Steeler Country

    How the heck do you get the league average is 26.4 when the last team in the league threw it 27.0 pass attempts per game.

    Just more wrong stats from you.

    If you could read I never said exactly 16 attempts per game. I also it only included the 1st to years in the league.

    You havent proved a single stat of mine wrong and you havent shown me a stat that was correct.

  9. #53
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    Re: Trouble in Steeler Country

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    How the heck do you get the league average is 26.4 when the last team in the league threw it 27.0 pass attempts per game.
    You obviously didn't open the link I provided above, which is the NFL's official site... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...0&d-447263-p=1

    Because if you did, then anyone could plainly see - because it's right before your eyes - that the least amount of PAs/game attempted by a QB was Boller (22.9). The most was by Drew Brees (40.8)

    But it's quite simple. First off - a QB has to have at least 14 PAs/game to qualify. It's not about who individually had the most, or who had the least. You do know how to calculate what "league average" is don't you? Obviously not.

    If you could read I never said exactly 16 attempts per game. I also it only included the 1st to years in the league.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    Come on Ben until the last couple of years threw like 16 attempts per game.
    It doesn't matter if you said exactly 16, like 16, or somewhere around 16. You were wrong.

    Why didn't you just take the time, like I did, and look the numbers up, instead of pulling one out of thin air?

    So spin away. This "debate" has ended for me because it's gone as far as it can. You're obviously too stubborn or prideful, when faced with straightforward and simple numbers that anyone can reference, to admit you are wrong. There's nothing left to prove (or disprove).
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  10. #54
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    Re: Trouble in Steeler Country

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    You obviously didn't open the link I provided above, which is the NFL's oficial site... http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...0&d-447263-p=1

    Because if you did, then anyone could plainly see - because it's right before your eyes - that the least amount of PAs/game attempted by a QB was Boller (22.9). The most was by Drew Brees (40.8)

    But it's quite simple. First off - a QB has to have at least 14 PAs/game to qualify. It's not about who individually had the most, or who had the least. You do know how to calculate what "league average" is don't you? Obviously not.





    It doesn't matter if you said exactly 16, like 16, or somewhere around 16. You were wrong.

    Why didn't you just take the time, like I did, and look the numbers up, instead of pulling one out of thin air?

    So spin away. This "debate" has ended for me because it's gone as far as it can. You're obviously too stubborn or prideful, when faced with straightforward and simple numbers that anyone can reference, to admit you are wrong. There's nothing left to prove (or disprove).
    You do know that Boller wasnt a starter and in games that he started he averaged 30 attempts per game right? Also just to further prove your wrong its *To qualify for passer rating, the player must have thrown at least 14 passes/game. You might want to read your own links and stop giving me wrong stat after wrong stat.

    Any thing else you want to be proven wrong on?

    I said like 16, i didnt say it was exact it actually was more like 20 but yea I was really far off
    Last edited by Bip Roberts; 02-04-2008 at 09:25 PM.


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