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Thread: Reds Re-sign Votto?

  1. #16
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I would disagree. I think if you get rid of Hatteberg and add Shelton you have just made the Reds weaker as a team.

    Why can't Votto play everyday? Also, I would favor Hatteberg coming off the bench late vs a righty as opposed to Shelton coming into face a lefty. I know thats hard to compare but still...Shelton is K prone.

    Dollar figures aside...am I in the minority who would rather have Hatte than Shelton???
    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64861

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...=chris+shelton

    Shelton would have more value playing first base against lefties than Hatteberg pinch-hitting. Why do Shelton's strikeouts matter? Sounds like Adam Dunn syndrome- haven't we gotten over that?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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  3. #17
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Strike outs for pinch hitters matter kinda.

  4. #18
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64861

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...=chris+shelton

    Shelton would have more value playing first base against lefties than Hatteberg pinch-hitting. Why do Shelton's strikeouts matter? Sounds like Adam Dunn syndrome- haven't we gotten over that?
    What in the world did those threads prove/show me. My question was how many people would prefer Shelton OVER Hatte. Sure, Shelton is a capable guy and would be a decent backup to have, no doubt. But at the expense of Hatteberg???

    Well done though in throwing in an Adam Dunn jab, despite the fact that you are comparing apples and oranges when it comes to everyday players vs a guy who would be coming in off the bench quite a bit. A K prone guy with decent power is not an ideal pinch hitter. A K prone guy with enormous power serves a role in an everyday lineup. C'mon, you can do better than that.

  5. #19
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    What in the world did those threads prove/show me. My question was how many people would prefer Shelton OVER Hatte. Sure, Shelton is a capable guy and would be a decent backup to have, no doubt. But at the expense of Hatteberg???

    Well done though in throwing in an Adam Dunn jab, despite the fact that you are comparing apples and oranges when it comes to everyday players vs a guy who would be coming in off the bench quite a bit. A K prone guy with decent power is not an ideal pinch hitter. A K prone guy with enormous power serves a role in an everyday lineup. C'mon, you can do better than that.
    My point was that there are a trememdous number of people on the ORG and SunDeck that feel Shelton would be a better use of the roster spot than Hatteberg, especially considering we may get a decent prospect for Hatt. So yeah the threads do respond to your question PERFECTLY.

    As to the second thing perhaps I was not clear enough: I love Adam Dunn. You can click my public profile and see that he is the only player I have listed as a favorite. my point was that while Shelton will strikeout, his power and great plate discipline would outweight the perceived disadvantage of the strikeouts. As I also mentioned, where Shelton's value would really come would be his role at first base against LH pitching. I think the whole "pinch-hitting-in-the-bottom-of-the-ninth-inning-with-two-outs" is getting a little blown out of proportion. You really don't have too many of those situations, and it is more important for us to get a RH first baseman to platoon with Votto.

    Oh yeah, and Shelton is just as good of a hitter as the 38 year-old Hatteberg. But those intangibles...

    Maybe you should have just read the threads. I already made all of these points, as did many members of the ORG...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  6. #20
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    My point was that there are a trememdous number of people on the ORG and SunDeck that feel Shelton would be a better use of the roster spot than Hatteberg, especially considering we may get a decent prospect for Hatt. So yeah the threads do respond to your question PERFECTLY.

    As to the second thing perhaps I was not clear enough: I love Adam Dunn. You can click my public profile and see that he is the only player I have listed as a favorite. my point was that while Shelton will strikeout, his power and great plate discipline would outweight the perceived disadvantage of the strikeouts. As I also mentioned, where Shelton's value would really come would be his role at first base against LH pitching. I think the whole "pinch-hitting-in-the-bottom-of-the-ninth-inning-with-two-outs" is getting a little blown out of proportion. You really don't have too many of those situations, and it is more important for us to get a RH first baseman to platoon with Votto.

    Oh yeah, and Shelton is just as good of a hitter as the 38 year-old Hatteberg. But those intangibles...

    Maybe you should have just read the threads. I already made all of these points, as did many members of the ORG...
    Maybe 5 people not counting yourself on those threads directly said they would be in favor of Hatte for Shelton. Tremendous amount of people???? Eh.

    And I knew you liked Dunn I didn't misunderstand...it just seemed like a baited remark...

    What do you define "plate discipline" as....thats not a term that Shelton usually brings to mind???

  7. #21
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Just as an aside to this thread. Has anyone bothered to realize Chris Shelton hit .255 vs lefties last year in over 100 AB's. At AAA Toledo.

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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Maybe 5 people not counting yourself on those threads directly said they would be in favor of Hatte for Shelton. Tremendous amount of people???? Eh.

    And I knew you liked Dunn I didn't misunderstand...it just seemed like a baited remark...

    What do you define "plate discipline" as....thats not a term that Shelton usually brings to mind???
    Are you accounting for the ORG thread too? It goes on for quite a few pages. You gotta read what RedsManRick says. If you can't respect his perspective, you don't respect yourself.

    I define plate discipline as Shelton's career minor league OBP of .412...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  9. #23
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Just as an aside to this thread. Has anyone bothered to realize Chris Shelton hit .255 vs lefties last year in over 100 AB's. At AAA Toledo.
    career splits:

    vs RH- .286/.342/.498 in 643 MLB PA
    vs LH- .269/.363/.420 in 256 MLB PA

    sounds better than Hatteberg to me, especially considering they were in Comerica instead of GABP...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  10. #24
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Are you accounting for the ORG thread too? It goes on for quite a few pages. You gotta read what RedsManRick says. If you can't respect his perspective, you don't respect yourself.

    I define plate discipline as Shelton's career minor league OBP of .412...
    Wow...way to take this to a personal level. I'm afraid I can't continue this discussion rationally. All I said was I disagree with your desire for Shelton. Then, you come back at me talking to me like I'm a child with your Adam Dunn remark rather than stats or a reasonable debate. I was looking forward to a Hatte/Shelton breakdown but oh well. I'm outta here.

  11. #25
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Wow...way to take this to a personal level. I'm afraid I can't continue this discussion rationally. All I said was I disagree with your desire for Shelton. Then, you come back at me talking to me like I'm a child with your Adam Dunn remark rather than stats or a reasonable debate. I was looking forward to a Hatte/Shelton breakdown but oh well. I'm outta here.
    I didn't intend to make this personal. in fact the respect yourself thing wasn't meant to be all that serious. I should have said his arguement instead of perspective... I'm sorry if you took it so personally, perhaps I need to be more serious...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Hey I freaking hate you Baseclogger

  13. #27
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    just kidding

  14. #28
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Ahh cooler heads have prevailed. Thanks for the PM Baseclogger. I am back.

  15. #29
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Ahh cooler heads have prevailed. Thanks for the PM Baseclogger. I am back.
    Reds in 2008 (now I just have to turn 21 so I don't feel guilty every time I use that smiley...)
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  16. #30
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    Re: Reds Re-sign Votto?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Reds in 2008 (now I just have to turn 21 so I don't feel guilty every time I use that smiley...)
    lol....Again, I apologize for my snippiness...you have shown you are nothing but class Baseclogger...now put that beer down!


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