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Thread: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

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    Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Since there is no veteran top starter coming in, I would immediately install the Reds top high minors level pitchers into the rotation. And a couple in the bullpen.

    My rotation -- Harang, Arroyo, Volquez, Bailey, Maloney. If Affeldt has a great spring, he can have Maloney's spot and Maloney can start at AAA.

    My bullpen -- Cueto, Bray, Stanton (due to contract), Weathers, Burton, Cordero, and long man Belisle. If Affeldt in pen, I'd find a way to move Stanton.

    If the Reds aren't going to acquire more high level veteran pitching, then let's get going with the high upside youngsters. Find a way for Cueto, Bailey, Volquez, and Maloney all to be with the team.

    And I'll take it even further. Other than Cordero and Burton, I'd watch my relievers carefully and be ready to go with Pelland, Roenicke and Viola very soon.

    If the Reds are going to compete, they just need better talent on the mound. Let's get the talent up to the major leagues now.

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    molestation

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    molestation

    Whatever crime it would be can't be worse than the crime that has passed for a pitching staff the last few years!

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    molestation
    pitcherasty
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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Since there is no veteran top starter coming in, I would immediately install the Reds top high minors level pitchers into the rotation. And a couple in the bullpen.

    My rotation -- Harang, Arroyo, Volquez, Bailey, Maloney. If Affeldt has a great spring, he can have Maloney's spot and Maloney can start at AAA.

    My bullpen -- Cueto, Bray, Stanton (due to contract), Weathers, Burton, Cordero, and long man Belisle. If Affeldt in pen, I'd find a way to move Stanton.

    If the Reds aren't going to acquire more high level veteran pitching, then let's get going with the high upside youngsters. Find a way for Cueto, Bailey, Volquez, and Maloney all to be with the team.

    And I'll take it even further. Other than Cordero and Burton, I'd watch my relievers carefully and be ready to go with Pelland, Roenicke and Viola very soon.

    If the Reds are going to compete, they just need better talent on the mound. Let's get the talent up to the major leagues now.
    As opinions go, this certainly is one.

    As ideas go, this is certainly a bad one.

    You're assuming that the youngsters have made the transition to turn their hypothetical talent into actual talent, which is an incorrect assumption.

    Bringing up the kids before they're ready (and none of them are 100% ready, let's not kid ourselves) will be catastrophically detrimental to their development. All of the kids need more time in the minors, make no mistake about it. Until they can consistently get out minor league hitters, it's criminal to assume they can consistently get out major league hitters.

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    You're talking about a full-scale destruction of virtually all trading value on this team.

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    As opinions go, this certainly is one.

    As ideas go, this is certainly a bad one.

    You're assuming that the youngsters have made the transition to turn their hypothetical talent into actual talent, which is an incorrect assumption.

    Bringing up the kids before they're ready (and none of them are 100% ready, let's not kid ourselves) will be catastrophically detrimental to their development. All of the kids need more time in the minors, make no mistake about it. Until they can consistently get out minor league hitters, it's criminal to assume they can consistently get out major league hitters.
    Was there a study done saying that bringing up pitchers early is guaranteed to ruin their careers?

    I agree that it might be better to leave them in the minors but I can't see it being a lock to ruin a guy. That's how it is treated around here.

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Was there a study done saying that bringing up pitchers early is guaranteed to ruin their careers?

    I agree that it might be better to leave them in the minors but I can't see it being a lock to ruin a guy. That's how it is treated around here.
    Because everytime the Reds rush a pitcher, bad things seem to happen.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Was there a study done saying that bringing up pitchers early is guaranteed to ruin their careers?

    I agree that it might be better to leave them in the minors but I can't see it being a lock to ruin a guy. That's how it is treated around here.

    You want to take that chance?
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    You want to take that chance?
    I said that it makes sense to keep them in the minors until they are ready.

    But I have heard so many remarks about why bringing them up is a bad idea:

    • Overthrow and hurt their arm
    • Overthrow and hurt their mechanics
    • Get caught up in "the life"
    • Mentally breakdown when they struggle


    Obviously bringing them up when they aren't ready isn't optimal. But I don't think it is the kiss of death for their careers.

    We went through this on another thread yesterday. Everyone was quick to bring up all the flamed out young studs. Everytime I brought up a young guy who succeeded, I was told that "they were ready." Even Bret Saberhagen, who pitched in a grand total of 27 games in the minors before getting called up. Somehow, 27 games is enough time to show that you are ready for the majors.

    If Homer goes crazy from being brought up too early, then he would have probably gone crazy at some point anyway.

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Was there a study done saying that bringing up pitchers early is guaranteed to ruin their careers?

    I agree that it might be better to leave them in the minors but I can't see it being a lock to ruin a guy. That's how it is treated around here.
    History is the study.

    History has shown that bringing pitchers up early highly correlates to ruined and or shortened careers.

    The pitchers that were brought up early and weren't impacted negatively are the exception to the rule, and they are few and far between.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    History is the study.

    History has shown that bringing pitchers up early highly correlates to ruined and or shortened careers.

    The pitchers that were brought up early and weren't impacted negatively are the exception to the rule, and they are few and far between.
    That's bogus.

    It's easy to point out examples of guys who didn't work out when they were brought up through the system. The population is very defined.

    Have you ever taken a look at young pitchers who weren't brought through the system quickly and flamed out? Maybe that stunted their growth.

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    That's bogus.

    It's easy to point out examples of guys who didn't work out when they were brought up through the system. The population is very defined.

    Have you ever taken a look at young pitchers who weren't brought through the system quickly and flamed out? Maybe that stunted their growth.
    What argument are you trying to make here?

    It sounds like you're saying that the majority of young arms don't have long success at the MLB, regardless of how much time they spent in the minors. If that's the case, then I partially agree with you. Making a long MLB career as a starting pitcher is probably one of the least certain events in the cosmos.

    As long as a kid is given ample opportunity to let his body mature, and then hone his craft (command, control, all the fun pitching buzzwords), the greater the chance for that kid to go on and have a long MLB career. If you bring a kid up before his body is ready, or before his mind is ready, or before his mechanics are ready, or he can't find the strikezone when he wants, then you're just setting the kid up for disaster.

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Have you ever taken a look at young pitchers who weren't brought through the system quickly and flamed out? Maybe that stunted their growth.
    I think that the better counterargument to "coddle thy pitchers" is one that I call "you'd better get it while you can." If pitchers have only a certain number of pitches before arm injury, why stash them in the minors for a long time?


    back to thread title: pitchers have to debut at some point, but I think that counting on many at once is a bad idea. Young pitchers are more likely to fail badly than even bad veterans are.

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    Re: Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    That's bogus.
    No, it's completely factual, but you feel free to pretend otherwise.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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