Reds Pitching -- Let's promote the prospects

[M2]

Then your ideal record is about 78 wins and 84 losses.

Better than the 90+ loss abomination you proposed at the beginning of the thread.

Belisle's no stud, but he's taken his lumps (312 major league IP, pretty much exactly what Harang had logged prior to 2005) and should be able to deliver a solid bit of work in 2008. I'll echo what jmcclain19 said in one of these threads recently - league average pitching (not fake league average pitching like Ramon Ortiz, but actual league average pitching) is grossly underrated on this board. I'll add that fictional, pie-in-the-sky pitching assessments for young and bad pitchers have long been grossly overrated.

The Reds have invested the time in Matt Belisle to get him to the point where he can be a reliable pro and shame on them if they don't reap that reward.

I don't have anything good to say about Affeldt in the rotation other than I prefer him getting smacked around than one of the kids.

[WMR]

Better than the 90+ loss abomination you proposed at the beginning of the thread.

Belisle's no stud, but he's taken his lumps (312 major league IP, pretty much exactly what Harang had logged prior to 2005) and should be able to deliver a solid bit of work in 2008. I'll echo what jmcclain19 said in one of these threads recently - league average pitching (not fake league average pitching like Ramon Ortiz, but actual league average pitching) is grossly underrated on this board. I'll add that fictional, pie-in-the-sky pitching assessments for young and bad pitchers have long been grossly overrated.

The Reds have invested the time in Matt Belisle to get him to the point where he can be a reliable pro and shame on them if they don't reap that reward.

Respek!!

[nate]

league average pitching (not fake league average pitching like Ramon Ortiz, but actual league average pitching) is grossly underrated on this board.

Not by me! But maybe people think that one should only pay "league minimum" for "league average."

[reds44]

Do not move Cueto to the pen. Please. The only way I do that is if it is August and the Reds are in contention, need a bullpen pitcher, and Cueto is still sitting in AAA. No way do I even consider that before the season.

[Highlifeman21]

Do not move Cueto to the pen. Please. The only way I do that is if it is August and the Reds are in contention, need a bullpen pitcher, and Cueto is still sitting in AAA. No way do I even consider that before the season.

You don't think the Reds should treat Cueto how the Yankees treated Joba?

Seems like a pretty good blueprint to me.

[reds44]

You don't think the Reds should treat Cueto how the Yankees treated Joba?

Seems like a pretty good blueprint to me.

Joba was called up August 8th, for a contending team, who needed bullpen help. That was exactly my point.

[Highlifeman21]

Joba was called up August 8th, for a contending team, who needed bullpen help. That was exactly my point.

I apologize, I misread your post.

So you're saying he pitches in Louisville's rotation unless the Reds need him as a bullpen addition in August-ish, or he pitches for the Reds rotation? He shouldn't start the season in the Reds bullpen?

[reds44]

I apologize, I misread your post.

So you're saying he pitches in Louisville's rotation unless the Reds need him as a bullpen addition in August-ish, or he pitches for the Reds rotation? He shouldn't start the season in the Reds bullpen?

Correct.

[Highlifeman21]

Correct.

Why do you think it's a bad idea for Cueto to start the season in the Reds bullpen?

I would think that would be a nice controlled way to expose him to the MLB level, as opposed to the way the Reds handled Bailey last year, by essentially throwing him into the deep end of the pool to see if he can swim.

[cincrazy]

Since there is no veteran top starter coming in, I would immediately install the Reds top high minors level pitchers into the rotation. And a couple in the bullpen.

My rotation -- Harang, Arroyo, Volquez, Bailey, Maloney. If Affeldt has a great spring, he can have Maloney's spot and Maloney can start at AAA.

My bullpen -- Cueto, Bray, Stanton (due to contract), Weathers, Burton, Cordero, and long man Belisle. If Affeldt in pen, I'd find a way to move Stanton.

If the Reds aren't going to acquire more high level veteran pitching, then let's get going with the high upside youngsters. Find a way for Cueto, Bailey, Volquez, and Maloney all to be with the team.

And I'll take it even further. Other than Cordero and Burton, I'd watch my relievers carefully and be ready to go with Pelland, Roenicke and Viola very soon.

If the Reds are going to compete, they just need better talent on the mound. Let's get the talent up to the major leagues now.

I understand wanting the young arms to be ready... but they're not. Pushing them will lead to disaster.

[WMR]

Why do you think it's a bad idea for Cueto to start the season in the Reds bullpen?

I would think that would be a nice controlled way to expose him to the MLB level, as opposed to the way the Reds handled Bailey last year, by essentially throwing him into the deep end of the pool to see if he can swim.

One of the most important aspects of an arm at Cueto's age is "stretching his arm out" to eventually become a starting pitcher capable of handling a starting pitcher's level innings. So far, that progression with Cueto has been just about perfect. Moving him to the pen would disrupt that considerably.

[reds44]

One of the most important aspects of an arm at Cueto's age is "stretching his arm out" to eventually become a starting pitcher capable of handling a starting pitcher's level innings. So far, that progression with Cueto has been just about perfect. Moving him to the pen would disrupt that considerably.

Yep.

Cueto threw 193 innings between A+/AA/AAA/Winter ball this year (struck out 207 guys too, just thought I'd throw that in there), in 2006 he threw 138 innings (not including winter ball because I can't find his stats), and in 2006 he threw 49 innings. Cueto has seen a steady in crease of work the last 3 years, and has made it through with no major arm injuries to speak of (knock on wood). Why would you bother taking him off his everyday schedule of pitching every 5th day that he has been working on the lst few years, and put him on a schedule of an irrartic work load? For example, Carlos Marmol threw 69.1 innings for the Cubs this year. Why would you waste the stretching out of Cueto's arm, and put him in the bullpen where he will throw fewer then 80 innings, on a schedule he isn't used to, only to throw him back on the 5th day schedule during the year or the year after?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Homer's an unrelated issue, Highlifeman21.

[Highlifeman21]

One of the most important aspects of an arm at Cueto's age is "stretching his arm out" to eventually become a starting pitcher capable of handling a starting pitcher's level innings. So far, that progression with Cueto has been just about perfect. Moving him to the pen would disrupt that considerably.

Or you can pitch him out of the bullpen, and keep him on a throwing regime to supplement innings he isn't getting on the mound.

But then again, I'm convinced he could be lights out coming out of the bullpen, and make a damn fine career doing so.

[WMR]

Or you can pitch him out of the bullpen, and keep him on a throwing regime to supplement innings he isn't getting on the mound.

But then again, I'm convinced he could be lights out coming out of the bullpen, and make a damn fine career doing so.

I'll take a Roy Oswalt-clone, TYVM.

A throwing regime just isn't the same thing mental-wise or physical-wise for a youngster fully accustomed to being a starting pitcher.

[reds44]

Or you can pitch him out of the bullpen, and keep him on a throwing regime to supplement innings he isn't getting on the mound.

But then again, I'm convinced he could be lights out coming out of the bullpen, and make a damn fine career doing so.

I think he can be lights out in the rotation.