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Thread: Hoosier Hoops

  1. #46
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    I'm a UK fan through and through, and despite the ribbing we were given earlier in the season by IU fans, IU does not deserve to have its history tarnished by Sampson and the AD. Its a good school, it deserves a good coach.

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  3. #47
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    I couldn't have stated it better, myself.

    Indiana could just cut their losses, fire Sampson and then beg the NCAA for mercy. But I disagree. The school already tried to do the right thing and referred the case to the NCAA, who no doubt did everything possible to find more dirt and allege even worse things so they could truly make an example out of Sampson and Indiana(1) for hiring the guy and "ignoring" their prior concerns about him that they could not fully pin down at OU, and (2) to try to gain "control" of the whole issue of "improper contact" via phone and text messages with recruits. Eric Gordon senior said it best and he should know...all schools do it now and the horse is out of the barn.

    The problem with the NCAA is that the organization is simply incapable of dealing with changing technology as it applies to rules. Years ago, no recruits had cellphones and all contact went through parents. Now it is just the opposite...a kid can be reached anywhere, any place or any time. Years ago nobody but businesses had 3-way calling, now every calling plan has the feature, and so forth. So this is a highly visible case for the NCAA, and Indiana should do all it can to ensure that the school and Sampson are entitled to a fair hearing by hopefully an independent and objective judge. This is Kelvin's livelihood after all...if the school caves, he'll never get a chance to refute the "allegations."


    Bottom line: this does not involve payouts, job favors, grade or class cheating or any of the really seedy things that some schools have been guilty of over the years. There is no typical "crime". This involves phone calls...I am curious if any Top 50 recruit has ever chosen to go to a school based on how many phone calls he received from a school? I've never heard of one and Gordon Sr. said it had no influence on his decision to play for Sampson.


    Challenge the NCAA to prove its case and let the legal process playout.

    P.S. Meanwhile the NCAA has done absolutely ZERO to USC about the much more scandalous Reggie Bush 6-figure payouts while in college. The hypocrisy is amazing!
    http://blogs.indystar.com/hoosiersin....html#comments

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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    It makes me wonder how a guy like Sampson could have not only kept his job at OU but landed one of the primier NCAA coaching jobs at IU.
    He had the best coaching record in the history of OU basketball is how he kept his job but I think he knew the hammer was about to come down on him. I don't understand why IU would hire him though?

  5. #49
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    I'm a UK fan through and through, and despite the ribbing we were given earlier in the season by IU fans, IU does not deserve to have its history tarnished by Sampson and the AD. Its a good school, it deserves a good coach.
    I know alot of people have written it off as a dumb signing, but who knows.

    Sampson was a known cheater at OU, and then he does the same thing at Indiana. Did they hire him without realizing that he would do it again, or did they hire him because they want to win, regardless of any rule breaking? Just a thought.

    And how can you justify it? Everyone has to adhere to these rules. He isn't exempt because technology has changed.

  6. #50
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by Handofdeath View Post
    He had the best coaching record in the history of OU basketball is how he kept his job but I think he knew the hammer was about to come down on him. I don't understand why IU would hire him though?
    Was OU relevant before Sampson? I ask because I don't know. It seems like OU was brought to the national forefront through Sampson's tenure achieving good deal of success.

    Both the university and Sampson should be punished. I don't care how stupid some people think the cell phone rule is, you still have to follow it. In today's world of technology communicating is made easier but there also is a recording of each phone call made. Sampson knew he was breaking the rules, knew that what he was doing left physical evidence, and not only did he break the rules but he broke the rules over 500 times.

    IU should be punished because they hired this guy with a shady past. The AD's may have changed but the school president and a borad of people would still have had to approve of the signing. How can a place of higher education hire a guy who already can't follow the rules to probably the most publically visiable position at their university?

  7. #51
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Was OU relevant before Sampson? I ask because I don't know. It seems like OU was brought to the national forefront through Sampson's tenure achieving good deal of success.

    They were pretty good in the 80s when Wayman Tisdale was there. Even made the Final 4 in 82.
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  8. #52
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    They were pretty good in the 80s when Wayman Tisdale was there. Even made the Final 4 in 82.
    Billy Tubbs was OU's coach in the 80's. He tought the folks from Oklahoma that their were other sports besides football. They were run and gun type teams that were fun to watch. They made it to NCAA Finals in 1988 and lost to Kansas.
    Why hasn't IU at least put Sampson on administrative leave pending the results of their investigation? This seems to be what they should be doing. That way if the allegations were proven false then they have their bases covered than going ahead and firing him. It would also get him off the sidelines were he is going to be nothing but bait for every student section in the Big Ten and takes some of the pressure off his players. I do feel bad for the IU players. They have done nothing wrong but have to suffer through all this.
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  9. #53
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Folks, this is all I'm suggesting:

    1)Indiana should do all it can to ensure that the school and Sampson are entitled to a fair hearing by hopefully an independent and objective judge.


    2)Challenge the NCAA to prove its case and let the legal process playout.

    3)Firing Sampson now accomplishes nothing. If the hammer is going to fall on Sampson and I.U, it's going to fall anyway, regardless of whether Sampson remains,or not.

    4)If Sampson is fired, Greenspan also needs to go.

    5)If the NCAA is truly willing to proceed with due dilligence regarding texting and phone calls, they will see that this is by no means limited to I.U. No,this doesn't justify it, but will other be schools be penalized severely, or will Sampson and I.U act as poster-children.

    6)
    Meanwhile the NCAA has done absolutely ZERO to USC about the much more scandalous Reggie Bush 6-figure payouts while in college. The hypocrisy is amazing!
    This is hypocritical, no matter how you slice it.

  10. #54
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    1)Indiana should do all it can to ensure that the school and Sampson are entitled to a fair hearing by hopefully an independent and objective judge.
    I understand what you are saying but this really isn't a criminal case. He broke the rules he was required to abide by. Its similar to an employer telling you your not allowed to make long distance phone calls but you do so anyway. What you are doing isn't illegal (which I have used earlier in this discussion which is probably the wrong way to describe this) but it is against the rules you are forced to abide by.

  11. #55
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Fighting the NCAA on this is only going to create a much bigger mess for IU to deal with and try to clean up in the long-term.

    The rules are clear. Whether or not you agree with them is a separate issue. This "case" is not the time for IU to try and work towards changing the NCAA's rules on contacting recruits, especially with an argument as asinine as "everyone else is doing it."

    Guarantee you IU knows whether or not Sampson did what the NCAA is alleging. If he did do it, they should have fired him yesterday. For the good of their kids, their reputation, and their program.

    IU is a very attractive job. They can get someone else just as good--probably BETTER--than Kelvin Sampson.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  12. #56
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    IU is a very attractive job. They can get someone else just as good--probably BETTER--than Kelvin Sampson.
    Like Sean Miller?
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  13. #57
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Kelvin Sampson's status as coach of Indiana's basketball team apparently will be decided on a game-by-game basis.

    IU Faces Decisions
    As Kelvin Sampson received a chilly reception from the home crowd on Wednesday, IU has to mull some hard decisions about its future. The best course of action might be to suspend Sampson immediately, writes Pat Forde. Story

    Discussions about whether Sampson would coach Wednesday night's game against Wisconsin went on as late as the afternoon preceding the game, according to a source close to the situation.

    A source told #SPN.com that there is an air of uncertainty on the staff regarding Sampson's status and whether he'll finish out the season. Sampson met with his coaches Tuesday into the night and again on Wednesday.

    Indiana (No. 12 ESPN/USA Today, No. 13 AP) could choose to suspend Sampson from coaching games while it figures out its options without having to fire him. The Hoosiers have home games Saturday against Michigan State and Tuesday against Purdue.

    Another source said Thursday that a buyout of Sampsons contract could be considered, as well. Sampson doesn't plan on resigning because it could be too much of a financial loss, and he would prefer to coach the Hoosiers this season, a source said.

    Larry MacIntyre, the assistant vice president for university communications, said IU president Michael McRobbie has met with the school's legal counsel, the board of trustees and athletic director Rick Greenspan.

    McRobbie has been on the job since July 1. Adam Herbert was the president who hired Sampson in March 2006.

    MacIntyre said there are no plans for a news conference Thursday or Friday, but he said he's "not going on vacation" and is prepared to quickly organize one if needed.

    Indiana is reviewing all of its legal options to avoid a lawsuit similar to what Ohio State went through with former men's basketball coach Jim O'Brien, ESPN.com has learned. O'Brien sued the school when he was fired before the NCAA had ruled on his case. O'Brien eventually won the lawsuit against Ohio State.

    Sampson could have a similar situation if he is terminated for cause prior to the NCAA officially ruling on a violation. Indiana has 90 days to respond to the enforcement staff's notice of allegations. A hearing in front of the committee on infractions won't occur until June, and a decision usually takes anywhere from a few weeks to a few months before it's rendered.

    Indiana is unlikely to wait that long to resolve Sampson's status.

    After the two home games, the Hoosiers face Northwestern Feb. 23 in Evanston, Ill., and host Ohio State on Feb. 26.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3245936
    Last edited by Revering4Blue; 02-14-2008 at 09:12 PM.

  14. #58
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Like Sean Miller?
    I'll give you another name I'd consider: Kevin Stallings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  15. #59
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops


    IU's best action might be to suspend Sampson immediately
    Forde





    BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- Most games, Kelvin Sampson wears his suit coat on the sideline for just a minute or two before shucking it off and handing it to a manager.

    Wednesday night against Wisconsin, Sampson's black blazer remained on his back for four minutes and 47 seconds. That's a record, according to Inside Indiana, a fan magazine that has been tracking the coach's suit coat for all 56 games of his tenure at IU.


    Kelvin Sampson's future is in serious doubt after this week's announcement of major violation allegations against him and members of his coaching staff.

    Maybe it was the chill in the Assembly Hall air that caused him to keep it on so long.

    There were light boos audible in the crowd of 17,320 when Sampson was introduced before tipoff. They mingled with subdued applause.

    "I didn't notice it," Sampson said afterward, when his thoroughly rotten day ended with the Badgers' Brian Butch banking in a 3-pointer to beat the Hoosiers 68-66.

    Before introductions, when Sampson and the entire Indiana staff emerged onto the court for the first time, the greeting was unnaturally neutral: no boos, almost no cheers. One fan said, "We love you, Kelvin!" and the coach responded with a wave of his right hand. And that was about it.

    It wasn't hostile. But neither was it the kind of warm greeting the coach of a 20-3 team normally would receive.

    That's what you get when you have landed in the icy predicament Sampson now is in.

    The serial phone dialer might have cheated his way out of one of the premier jobs in college basketball. Once NCAA Enforcement sent its official letter of inquiry last Friday charging Indiana with five major rules violations on Sampson's watch -- adding to the rap sheet he earned previously at Oklahoma -- his dismissal/resignation became a very real possibility.

    Perhaps sooner rather than later.

    Sampson read a statement after Wednesday's game that refuted some of the NCAA allegations and indicated the coach would rather fight than quit.

    "The allegation that I knowingly acted contrary to the sanctions imposed on me for violations that occurred while I was at Oklahoma is not true," Sampson said. "I have never intentionally provided false and misleading information to the NCAA. I intend to work within the NCAA process on this matter, and I look forward to my opportunity to do so."

    Sampson answered no questions on the matter before exiting a crowded media room with his wife, Karen, and two children, Kellen and Lauren. Behind the scenes, he has been working on a public-relations campaign aimed at burnishing his reputation, but that campaign faces tougher odds than Mike Huckabee's.

    Athletic director Rick Greenspan -- whose own job would seem to be on the line, after he took a chance and hired Sampson -- said Wednesday afternoon that he expected his man to coach against Wisconsin. He offered no ironclad assurances beyond that, saying Sampson would coach "for the foreseeable future."

    "What that means to me," Greenspan said, "is that we have work to do."

    That work will center on how to address these very serious allegations, and how vigorously to defend the coach and his assistants who are accused of them. The coach and his program have arrived at a high-stakes crossroads. How they go forward from here likely will affect Indiana basketball for years to come.

    Right now, IU seems to have three bad choices.

    1. Fire Sampson now.

    That would be based on the following cause-and-effect logic:

    Indiana doesn't cheat.

    Indiana hired a cheater who promised to behave.

    The cheater allegedly cheated again.

    At a school with a long and strong history of winning fair and square, this would seem to be a fireable offense. A dismissal would seem like the right thing to do. But even beyond propriety comes utility.

    The NCAA Committee on Infractions, which will hear Indiana's case in June, has a track record of taking into account "swift, corrective action" by an offending university when it comes to doling out penalties. If the school sanctions itself, it might catch a break.

    IU already withheld a $500,000 bonus Sampson was slated to get, but that didn't remove the problem element. Taking out Sampson would do just that, and there is language in his contract that seemingly would pave the way for a dismissal. A big move like that could prevent a postseason ban or other major penalty.

    The hitch: It could completely undercut this season, but that's only part of the potential problem. What if Sampson is fired before he gets his day in NCAA court? Indiana can ask Big Ten neighbor Ohio State how costly it can be to fire a coach accused of rule-breaking before he gets a chance to try to exonerate himself. Former OSU coach Jim O'Brien won a lawsuit against the school for wrongful termination.

    2. A pre-emptive postseason ban.

    Indiana could bench this team for the NCAA Tournament, just as the Buckeyes did with O'Brien's team in 2004-05. That, too, would qualify as swift, corrective action, and it could preserve postseason play in future years.

    The hitch: The NCAA Enforcement report redacted only one name, which would indicate only one current player was named in an alleged recruiting violation. So the players on the nation's 12th-ranked team are largely blameless. Would it be fair to punish them for the coaches' alleged transgressions?


    Indiana assistant Dan Dakich, a former head coach at Bowling Green, appears to be clear on the violations at Indiana. If Sampson were to be fired this season, Dakich would be a logical replacement.

    And then there is this: A Hoosiers team with senior D.J. White and likely NBA early entry guard Eric Gordon seems much more likely to do something memorable this NCAA Tournament than a 2008-09 team that will be lacking both.

    3. Do nothing, and fight the power.

    Indiana can circle the wagons, play out the season and then mount a vigorous defense of its scofflaw coach in June. Maybe the Committee on Infractions will see it IU's way and decide against adding significant penalties to those that already have been imposed by the school.

    The hitch: Indiana already acknowledged most of the infractions. Indeed, it uncovered most of them itself with a meticulous compliance system that did its job (a seeming rarity these days in big-time college athletics).

    Then there is this: If the Committee on Infractions doesn't buy IU's argument for leniency, it seemingly would have the authority to crush the program into jelly. Postseason ban, scholarship reductions, recruiting restrictions, banning Sampson from coaching in the NCAA -- all those things conceivably could be in play. In other words, the Hoosiers would have to think they had a very good chance of winning in order to take such a risk.

    There is a fourth option, and it might be Indiana's best option right now:

    Suspend Sampson, effective immediately. Don't let him coach Saturday against Michigan State. Don't let him coach another minute this season.

    Turn the team over to assistant coach and former IU player Dan Dakich, who previously was the head coach at Bowling Green and whose name is nowhere to be found in the NCAA letter. Play in the postseason.

    Allow Sampson to state his case to the school for why he shouldn't be fired. Decide whether that case is strong enough to argue before the NCAA. If it is, do it. If not, fire him, and remove Greenspan as well. His gamble on a convicted cheater will have blown up in his face.

    Doing nothing is not an intelligent option.

    The scandal already has had a noticeably chilling effect on Sampson's popularity. And it has done even more damage to Indiana's once-pristine reputation.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/colum...3&sportCat=ncb
    Last edited by Revering4Blue; 02-14-2008 at 09:08 PM.

  16. #60
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Hoosier Hoops

    Another, Jay Wright.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"



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