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Thread: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

  1. #61
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    "Chan of Evidence?" Sounds like the latest Jackie Chan movie.

    Actually, Congress is acting in an investigatory role here, so the Federal Rules of Evidence don't really apply, just as they wouldn't apply in a grand jury proceeding. Congress isn't putting Clemens on trial, it is investigating MLB and the veracity of the claims in the Mitchell Report. What would the result be? If Congress doesn't think MLB is doing enough to combat PEDs, they may revoke MLB's anti-trust exemption or they may enact legislation requiring random drug testing in professional sports. The only thing they can charge Clemens with is contempt, if he lies to them.

    So while this evidence might not make it in if this were a civil or criminal trial, it can be considered by Congress and could also be considered by a grand jury in determining whether to indict Clemens of a crime.
    Excellent points. Waaaay better job of putting the "evidence" into perspective than I ever could. Considering how supposedly easy indictments are to get and that Congress has very few lawyers as members I can see this getting out of hand.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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  3. #62
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    BTW here's what the evidence...err garbage... errr evidence... looked like spread out on the table.


  4. #63
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    If McNamee lied about other players, then why is Clemens the only one disputing the report?
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  5. #64
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    Also, don't forget that Jason Grimsley also named Clemens as a steroid user.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  6. #65
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    Also, don't forget that Jason Grimsley also named Clemens as a steroid user.
    Actually, he was cleared of that IIRC. I believe that there were names blacked out of the report, and it was reported that he and Pettitte were both names that had been blacked out.

    That was later retracted and blamed on bad reporting our incorrect information, etc.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  7. #66
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    This pretty much sums up my feelings about the Clemens situation:

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...-clemens-time/

    Those gleefully taking their opportunity to pound their moral sticks have, in their zeal, kind of missed the point....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #67
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    This pretty much sums up my feelings about the Clemens situation:

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...-clemens-time/



    Before we proceed further, I would like to give you my opinion...
    I believe Roger Clemens did use anabolic steroids and quite possibly human growth hormone.... Having said this, I find it appalling to read the assumption of guilt among so many.


    I have seen this "It's-OK-for-me-to form an opinion on little information because I am naturally instinctive but I am appalled for anyone else to do the same" sentiment before. Every American's got a tiny defense-lawyer-muscle that they flex at their neighbors every once in a while. It's a good thing.

  9. #68
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    Every American's got a tiny defense-lawyer-muscle that they flex at their neighbors every once in a while. It's a good thing.
    Well, there's "proof" and then there's PROOF.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  10. #69
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    [B]I have seen this "It's-OK-for-me-to form an opinion on little information because I am naturally instinctive but I am appalled for anyone else to do the same" sentiment before.
    You'd have to ignore his argument in order to come away from his editorial with that conclusion....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #70
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    You'd have to ignore his argument in order to come away from his editorial with that conclusion....
    his argument is "my weak-inductive-reasoning can beat up your weak-inductive-reasoning"

    I find his tone ignorable, ignorant, and ignominious.

  12. #71
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    his argument is "my weak-inductive-reasoning can beat up your weak-inductive-reasoning"

    I find his tone ignorable, ignorant, and ignominious.
    His argument was essentially, it's alright to have an opinion based upon "weak-inductive-reasoning" if you acknowledge it's weakness with an open mind. He's not critical of the opinion but rather the rush to accept such opinion as fact.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #72
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    Before we proceed further, I would like to give you my opinion...
    I believe Roger Clemens did use anabolic steroids and quite possibly human growth hormone.... Having said this, I find it appalling to read the assumption of guilt among so many.


    I have seen this "It's-OK-for-me-to form an opinion on little information because I am naturally instinctive but I am appalled for anyone else to do the same" sentiment before. Every American's got a tiny defense-lawyer-muscle that they flex at their neighbors every once in a while. It's a good thing.

    I have little problem with Roger doing steroids. Lots of players used. What I have a problem with is his endless lying about it. That's why I want this investigation to go forward. Not because I care if he used...I want to know if he's lying to me, Joe Fan.

  14. #73
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    The one thing that really bothers me the most about the "evidence" that McNamee presented is that, if true, Clemens drinks Miller Lite. Thats a damn shame right there.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  15. #74
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8 View Post
    The one thing that really bothers me the most about the "evidence" that McNamee presented is that, if true, Clemens drinks Miller Lite. Thats a damn shame right there.

    Well, you know how athletes in training need to drink a lot of water.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  16. #75
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Lawyers: McNamee has physical evidence linking Clemens to steroids

    I can't believe this is that big of a story. To anyone with eyes and a brain, Clemens was every bit as obvious as Bonds. And I'm talking five years ago. I didn't need some loser like Brian McNamee to tell me that the Rocket launched due to illegal fuel.


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