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Thread: Overrated/Underrated

  1. #16
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    You're kidding right?

    The guy has posted an OBP over .330 exactly twice in this decade (2000, 2004). His .801 OPS in 2007 was just his second season with a .800+ OPS since 2001 (1.017 in 2004).
    He's been everything the Ms wanted when they signed him. Considering what Safeco does to right-handed hitters, his bat has been just fine. His glove has been extraordinary.

    When considering his bat and glove, Beltre was roughly a 3 win player in '06 and roughly a 4 win player in '07. He's been more valuable than Dunn over the last two seasons. What's more, the Ms are getting Beltre for sub-market rates.

    Beltre is definitely underrated.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  3. #17
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    He's been everything the Ms wanted when they signed him. Considering what Safeco does to right-handed hitters, his bat has been just fine. His glove has been extraordinary.

    When considering his bat and glove, Beltre was roughly a 3 win player in '06 and roughly a 4 win player in '07. He's been more valuable than Dunn over the last two seasons. What's more, the Ms are getting Beltre for sub-market rates.

    Beltre is definitely underrated.
    Take Safeway out of it. I just looked at his away stats his last 3 years and they're not so great:

    2005 - .295 on base perc.
    2006 - .343 on base perc.
    2007 - .320 on base perc.

    Considering the guy had a .404 away on base percentage in the year prior to getting the big contract, I highly doubt he's been "everything the M's wanted when they signed him."

    I don't see him play enough to know if his defense makes up for some of it (I'm sure it does), but that's a LOT of outs in the batters box for a $13 million player, even if he's playing Scott Rolen quality defense.

    I think most sane GMs would take Adam Dunn instead.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  4. #18
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Just off the top of my head

    Overrated:

    1) Nolan Ryan: Certainly should be in the HOF and possibly one of the ten greatest pitchers ever but to many people discuss him as the greatest pitcher ever and I think thats foolish.

    2) Reggie Jackson: Could hit HR's and certainly in the clutch but thats all he could do.....well besides cause trouble.

    3) Ozzie Smith: He was very good but not that much better than Trammell and Concepcion who aren't in the HOF and who had a better all around game the Ozzie did.

    4) Roger Maris: To many people argue for his induction into Cooperstown, but you need more than a few very good years to get in.

    Underrated:

    1) Bill Madlock: He doesn't deserve induction into Cooperstown but did win 4 batting titles and seems all but forgotten. Wade Boggs won five batting titles and was inducted into the HOF on the first ballot but Madlock didnt even come close.

    2) Bert Blyleven: Why he is not in the HOF is a beyond me!!

    3) Dick Allen: Superstar whose bad attitude and reputation sullied his legacy as a great hitter.

    4) Dwight Evans: One of the greatest defensive right fielders ever and also had 385 HR's to go along with it. I think an argument can be made the he is just as HOF worthy as Jim Rice is but Evans never made it.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  5. #19
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Aaron Harang, Pat Burrell, Brad Hawpe, Mark DeRosa & Adam Dunn are underrated.

    Jose Reyes, Andruw Jones, Juan Pierre, & Jeremy Bonderman are overrated.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  6. #20
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Harang is completely underrated. Lance Berkman was listed and he's a good one. I think the most overrated player in baseball is Johnny Damon. Though I think people are now realizing he stinks at this point.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  7. #21
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    Take Safeway out of it. I just looked at his away stats his last 3 years and they're not so great:

    2005 - .295 on base perc.
    2006 - .343 on base perc.
    2007 - .320 on base perc.

    Considering the guy had a .404 away on base percentage in the year prior to getting the big contract, I highly doubt he's been "everything the M's wanted when they signed him."

    I don't see him play enough to know if his defense makes up for some of it (I'm sure it does), but that's a LOT of outs in the batters box for a $13 million player, even if he's playing Scott Rolen quality defense.

    I think most sane GMs would take Adam Dunn instead.
    Sure '05 was a disappointment offensively. But once again, he's been more valuable than Dunn over the last two seasons. He's not being paid $13M either.

    Most GMs would prefer Beltre.

    And of course, this really this makes the point-Beltre is highly underrated.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #22
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Underrated - Harang and Brandon Phillips

    Barry Larkin - He may have been the greatest SS of his generation but was over shadowed by Ozzie and Cal Ripkin due to flair and the streak.
    Josh Beckett - Most dominant post season pitcher of my generation. I think I heard someone say he is due to make $10M this season. An absolute steal.
    Overrated
    Jeter - Good SS but not a great SS
    Mussina - Someone mentioned him earlier and he has been an above average pitcher but not buy much throughout his career.
    Damon - I agree with this one. He was a nice player but gained too much attenetion for growing the beard and being part of the "bunch of idiots" in boston.
    Yankees and Red Sox - Anytime someone puts on a NY or Bos jersey they tend to be over valued by the media.

  9. #23
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Underrated-Davey Concepcion, it is a travesty that he has not been voted into the HOF, much more balanced overall career than Mr. Smith.
    Mario Soto
    Ron Santo (as a player)
    Edwin Encarnacion

    Overrated-Ozzie Smith--see above, Carl Crawford, Don Sutton, Cesar Cedeno, Fernando Valenzuela, Joe Torre (manager), Ron Santo (announcer), Jack Buck, Joe Buck, Leo Mazzone, Sean Casey

  10. #24
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    jojo: The same guy who dogs Edwin Encarnacion is trying to pimp Beltre??

    How about this, for the money EE is making, compared to what Beltre is making, relative to what each one brings to the table, I'd take EE on my team six days a week and twice on Sunday.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  11. #25
    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Chipper Jones is one immediately that jumps out at me as being underrated. Did anyone look at his ridiculous numbers last year while he was hurt? Probably one of the five best, if not three best players in all of baseball that gets little pub. Roy Oswalt & Aaron Harang are key figures on the Unappreciated Express train of baseball stardom.

    Johnny Damon is a great one for being overrated. As is Derek Jeter. If either played for - say Toronto instead of NY, you'd rarely hear of them. Juan Pierre is also one of the worst ballplayers that I've seen that everyone seemingly just loves. I just don't get it. He's fast, but he can't field, can't throw, has no power, can't take pitches, can't walk to save his life. His speed also covers up many of his horrible routes and mis timed jumps in the OF.

  12. #26
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    jojo: The same guy who dogs Edwin Encarnacion is trying to pimp Beltre??
    I don't dog EE. I have no clue where that is coming from.....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #27
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    Aaron Harang, Pat Burrell, Brad Hawpe, Mark DeRosa & Adam Dunn are underrated.

    Jose Reyes, Andruw Jones, Juan Pierre, & Jeremy Bonderman are overrated.
    Jose Reyes is the real deal. Clearly not overrated.

    I agree with the other 3 (Jones, Pierre & Bonderman).

  14. #28
    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Harang belongs in the Severely Underrated category. The Gentleman Giant flat out gets it done.
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  15. #29
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I don't dog EE. I have no clue where that is coming from.....
    I distinctly remember us discussing EE and you were of the opinion that he would never be anything better than an average third-baseman (at his absolute best). You were definitely pretty "down" on his potential...
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  16. #30
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Overrated/Underrated

    My avatar agrees: Juan Pierre
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."


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