Recent history....
I always thought Al Leiter was underrated. I would rather have had Leiter on the mound in a big game than many of the more celebrated pitchers of his era.
Recent history....
I always thought Al Leiter was underrated. I would rather have had Leiter on the mound in a big game than many of the more celebrated pitchers of his era.
overrated: Ryne Sandberg, O. Smith
underrated: Concepcion, Harang, Darrell Evans
Adrian Beltre better than Adam Dunn?!? That is hilarious. It truly is.
I think its a lot closer than you want to give it credit for.Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
It's not even close for me. I see a very productive hitter and then I see a guy who has been terribly overpaid and underperformed his whole career.
Then we also have a very productive defender and one of the 5 worst in baseball.
I do think EE's ceiling is basically that of a slightly above average third baseman. There is nothing derogatory or doggin' about that assessment.
BTW, I've also argued how valuable that is to control for 6 years. I've also argued that he's very capable of improving his defense and I've pretty much been an advocate for sticking him in the lineup and forgetting about him when Narron was jerking him around and many were down on him (maybe only dougdirt has beat that drum harder).
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
reds44 beat that drum hardest of all...
And I firmly believe he's right. EE should be a 150+ game guy, kinda like one of those Ronco rotisseries... Set it, and forget it.
I don't really care much about LF defense, which is probably the least important defensive position in baseball.
I guarantee you the Mariners didn't pay Adrian Beltre the amount of money they did for him to just OPS .716, .793, and .801.
When looking at their overall values, Beltre has been a more valuable player 3 out of the last 4 seasons and that's before considering that Beltre plays a much more demanding position.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
I do not think we've seen EE's ceiling yet, or anywhere close to it. The things Narron did to him were just hard to believe sometimes. He basically lost his starting job for no good reason while he was hurt in 2006, and then was left in AAA to rot for two weeks. Does/did anyone really believe he was down there that long for "rehab"? I remember him playing something like 13 full games in 12 days while he was down there. He came back to sit in the bench 3 of the 4 games going into the all-star break. Then the "not running out a pop out" incident last year where it was clear as day he had no idea where the ball was. When Narron was fired and Pete just stuck him at 3rd base and left him there, we saw dramatic improvement in his offensive and defensive game. The two things I hate most is when managers hit a young player 8th, and when they jerk him around.
I have no idea how good EE will be. I know how good he can be, though. Remember the insane pace he was on for double his first full year before he got hurt? Then last year, even with his horrific start he still led the team in BA. Hopefully Dusty just sticks him at 3rd base and leaves him alone this year, and we get a mix of his power and his average.
Last edited by reds44; 02-11-2008 at 07:27 PM.
Your first paragraph, to me, only emphises more why Beltre's D is so valuable. You argue that Dunn carries no defensive weight due to his position. Well 3B is one of the toughest positions. Beltre's D is great.
As for your 2nd paragraph.. I completely agree.
I don't think the M's have gotten what they thought they were, even if Beltre is still a nice player.
"I hate to advocate chemicals, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone... But they've always worked for me."
-Hunter S. Thompson
Sure it's almost as far left on the defensive spectrum as it can get but that doesn't mean being a minus defender there doesn't impact a player's overall value. All it means is that he's less of a liability in left than say center.
Of course not. They also paid him to be one of the best defenders at his position.
Last edited by jojo; 02-11-2008 at 07:32 PM. Reason: fixed a quote tag...yep, I'm that conscienscious.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
I know that when I'm building a team, I'll take the career .900 OPS hitter over the guy with a .786 OPS. Adrian Beltre coudn't carry Adam Dunn's jockstrap.
We should all be screaming Aaron Harang.
The guy was flat out robbed of the Cy Young award two years ago. To not even get a single first place vote just goes to show that the voters have no idea what a baseball is.
As far as overrated, you have to go Jeter. The guy is a really good ballplayer, and I would take him on my team any day of the week, but he has been seriously overrated.
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