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Thread: BP's latest on the Reds

  1. #1
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    BP's latest on the Reds

    from Sheehan

    The Reds have been an ill-defined team for a while, never quite rebuilding, never quite being awful, never quite being a contender. That continues this year, for even as the products of the farm system make their way forward in Bruce, Bailey, Votto and Cueto, they’ve hired a manager, in Dusty Baker, whose signature trait is his preference for veterans. Despite Baker’s reputation as a leader of men and a good manager, it still seems like his success was more about timing—showing up in San Francisco when Barry Bonds did—than anything he brought to the table. This job may settle the debate over him, once and for all.
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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    that is pretty much how I feel about Dusty Baker in a nutshell...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    that is pretty much how I feel about Dusty Baker in a nutshell...
    Has Dusty ever had this type of team though? It seems like he always starts managing a team with alot of proven talent and a pretty empty cupboard. I'm going to judge him on how he does in mixing our new talent with our existing talent. I think this team has more talent on the verge than any team he has started working with before though. I could be wrong on that, just off the top of my head. His earlier teams were built to win now and had smaller windows.

    Still doesn't make up for his Neifi or Ramon Martinez love. But at least all the ripping he has gotten through the media in Chicago and San Fran might make him act differently here. Lets hope so.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    Baker has a knack of showing up at the right time.

    Showed up in San Fran and was handed Barry Bonds.

    Showed up in Chicago and was handed a 22 year old Mark Prior and a 22 year old Carlos Zambrano.

    Shows up in Cincinnati and is being handed Bruce, Bailey, Cueto and Votto....

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    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    And he should have won a world series in one place and you could say got unlucky in the other place. It's tough for me to hate on Dusty as much as some do in Reds land. I think it was high time the Reds got a manager in here that will demand success. We've been managed by guys with none of that lately. I'm glad the organization are trying to win. Lets again just hope Dusty changed a bit of his ideas but still brings that extra something we've been missing. I call it accountability for all, not just anyone that supposedly hustles every play like Freel. He got away with way too much here while others like Edwin got put in the doghouse. I don't see Baker doing that.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    And he should have won a world series in one place and you could say got unlucky in the other place. It's tough for me to hate on Dusty as much as some do in Reds land. I think it was high time the Reds got a manager in here that will demand success. We've been managed by guys with none of that lately. I'm glad the organization are trying to win. Lets again just hope Dusty changed a bit of his ideas but still brings that extra something we've been missing. I call it accountability for all, not just anyone that supposedly hustles every play like Freel. He got away with way too much here while others like Edwin got put in the doghouse. I don't see Baker doing that.
    If we believe his public statements, he's anxious to work with our young players. I think the whole "vet love" is more myth than reality. At SF, he certainly brought along some younger players in his early years - and Bonds was under 30 when he signed with the Giants. I agree with your assessment.
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    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Has Dusty ever had this type of team though? It seems like he always starts managing a team with alot of proven talent and a pretty empty cupboard.
    The Cubs, 2006. And he failed miserably.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    The Cubs, 2006. And he failed miserably.
    Eh? Derrick Lee out most of the year? Todd Walker your regular second baseman? Prior pitched a little trying to come back, Wood made 4 starts, and Ryan Dempster was the primary closer? Those Cubs were Dusty's fault?

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    I pose a conundrum: If we bash Billy Beane for never winning a World Series, then why don't we do the same to Dusty Baker? Granted, one is a GM and the other is a manager, but both have had good winning %, while some defend one and others defend the other...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Boom Goes the Dynamite Screwball's Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I pose a conundrum: If we bash Billy Beane for never winning a World Series, then why don't we do the same to Dusty Baker? Granted, one is a GM and the other is a manager, but both have had good winning %, while some defend one and others defend the other...
    Billy Beane, bashed on Redszone? Maybe in the Sun Deck, but the vast, vast majority of Beane talk on ORG places him on a pedestal.

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    Quiet Reverence Vada Pinson Fan's Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    from Sheehan
    The Reds have been an ill-defined team for a while, never quite rebuilding, never quite being awful, never quite being a contender. That continues this year, for even as the products of the farm system make their way forward in Bruce, Bailey, Votto and Cueto, they’ve hired a manager, in Dusty Baker, whose signature trait is his preference for veterans. Despite Baker’s reputation as a leader of men and a good manager, it still seems like his success was more about timing—showing up in San Francisco when Barry Bonds did—than anything he brought to the table. This job may settle the debate over him, once and for all.
    Sheehan could also have been talking about the Bengals in recent years. Hopefully, where the Reds are concerned, Castellini/Krivsky/Jocketty will end this Reds malaise once and for all.

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I pose a conundrum: If we bash Billy Beane for never winning a World Series, then why don't we do the same to Dusty Baker? Granted, one is a GM and the other is a manager, but both have had good winning %, while some defend one and others defend the other...
    I'm not sure winning a World Series is a fair measurement in this game for being successful, either for a manager or a GM. Too many great teams have lost that 7 game series to make me believe their success is diminished by losing in a best of 7.

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    Billy Beane, bashed on Redszone? Maybe in the Sun Deck, but the vast, vast majority of Beane talk on ORG places him on a pedestal.
    I'm confident there are doubters amongst us...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  15. #14
    We are the angry mob cincyinco's Avatar
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    Re: BP's latest on the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I'm not sure winning a World Series is a fair measurement in this game for being successful, either for a manager or a GM. Too many great teams have lost that 7 game series to make me believe their success is diminished by losing in a best of 7.
    Agreed, there's a lot of luck in a short series, let alone a 7 game one.
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