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Thread: Young arm or two are needed

  1. #1
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    Young arm or two are needed

    Young arm or two are needed
    More openings mean more risk
    BY JOHN FAY | JFAY@ENQUIRER.COM

    SARASOTA, FLA. - Saturday was the day pitchers and catchers reported to the Ed Smith Stadium complex.

    Unless I missed something, Joe Blanton was not among them.

    A trade still could happen - the Bronson Arroyo trade didn't happen until March 20 in 2006 - but Blanton remains an Oakland A. So it looks as though the Reds are going with the young guys.

    Good call or bad call?

    Ask me June 1.

    What the Reds are hoping is that from the field of Homer Bailey, Edinson Volquez, Matt Maloney, Johnny Cueto and Jeremy Affeldt they can fill two spots in the rotation well enough to compete in the National League Central.

    Had they added Blanton, they'd be looking for one starter from that field of five. Given the talent of those young guys, that wouldn't be too much to ask.

    Trying to get two might be a stretch.

    "We've got enough people," manager Dusty Baker said. "We've got some pretty good arms. It depends on how some of them mature. It depends on how their attitude and application for learning is."

    Again, the aforementioned group is talented. Ted Power, the pitching coach at Triple-A Louisville, has seen three of the five - Bailey, Cueto, Maloney - pitch.

    Are they ready to help the Reds now?

    "Stuff-wise? Yes," Power said. "I haven't been around long enough and seen enough guys get to the big leagues to be an expert. But they have good stuff."

    Power rated Maloney a little behind Bailey and Cueto.

    "You're used to left-handers having that stuff that tails away from right-handed hitters," he said. "He doesn't have that."

    With Bailey and Cueto, they've got the pitches to be successful right now.

    "When he's on, Homer has nasty stuff," Power said. "Cueto was very impressive every time he pitched. Their stuff is pretty damn good."

    The same is true of Volquez and Affeldt. Volquez was the No. 1-rated pitching prospect in the Texas organization. Affeldt had a 3.51 ERA last year with the Colorado Rockies, albeit in relief.

    So the potential is there in all five cases.

    But none gives the Reds what Blanton would: a guy who is an absolute lock to give you 200-plus innings and 30-plus starts if he's healthy.

    But Blanton has a career 4.11 ERA. You'd think that if all goes right for Bailey, Cueto and Co., a few of them will do better than that.

    But it's not a given that they'll be able to take that next step.

    Long-suffering Reds fans remember that Ty Howington and Chris Gruler had a lot of potential too. Injuries derailed them.

    Injuries aren't the only thing that derails careers. There are a lot of guys who throw 96 mph who don't make it.

    Bailey, Volquez, Cueto and Maloney are all between 21 and 24. All have had success at Triple-A. But they say the biggest jump is from Triple-A to the majors.

    Today, with the first workout of spring, the Reds will begin trying to get those young guys over that final hurdle.

    It's now more about pitching than throwing.

    Baker recalls the spring that Dave Stewart learned a third pitch.

    "He went from a guy who couldn't win a job to winning 20 games four years in a row," Baker said.

    The Reds can't expect that to fall into their laps.

    But the question of the spring is: Will two of the young guy step up and make the rotation competitive?

    We'll see.

    If it becomes apparent in spring training that they can't, it might be time to give A's general manager Billy Beane a call to see if Blanton is still available.

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...L09/802170511/


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  3. #2
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Young arm or two are needed

    Classic John Fay.
    "Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Young arm or two are needed

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    Classic John Fay.
    That's what I thought. Who is he whining about not having. This week it's Blanton, a month ago it was Bedard, before that Haren, etc. etc. - we can't do it with these young arms, he says on and on ad nauseum. I really miss the Post.
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    Re: Young arm or two are needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Young arm or two are needed
    More openings mean more risk
    BY JOHN FAY | JFAY@ENQUIRER.COM

    But they say the biggest jump is from Triple-A to the majors.


    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...L09/802170511/
    Who is "they"?

    Fay?

    "They" is wrong.

    The biggest jump for any youngster is to AA ball. A ton of great prospects have faltered when reaching AA for the first time. SOme of the best prospects don't even see AAA ball, skipping it entirely.

  6. #5
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Young arm or two are needed

    Never a good thing when current Reds prospects are mentioned in the same piece as Howington and Gruler.

  7. #6
    Registered User red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Young arm or two are needed

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Who is "they"?

    Fay?

    "They" is wrong.

    The biggest jump for any youngster is to AA ball. A ton of great prospects have faltered when reaching AA for the first time. SOme of the best prospects don't even see AAA ball, skipping it entirely.
    So where did the AAAA player moniker come from?

    I don't like sportswriters all that much, and I agree that Fay is certainly not my favorite.....but if anybody is allowed to use "they" it seems like someone who makes his living in the business should be able to.

    This article is simpy what many of us have been saying for months. Of course Fay has whined about Bedard and others before we got DOWN to Blanton. Because the need has been there screaming out for years to do ANYTHING to improve this rotation.

    Getting Harang and Arroyo was great, but you cannot just stop there and bring on the yearly parade of wantabees to fill out the rest of it and just shrug your shoulders when it doesn't work.

    Fay says anyone of the youngsters or some combination of them should be able to post a 4.11 ERA......love to see that one!!!!

    As dougD has pointed out, if your 4 and 5 starters post a 4.11 ERA (i.e., league average or such) you should be in pretty good shape. We'll see.

  8. #7
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Young arm or two are needed

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la View Post
    So where did the AAAA player moniker come from?

    I don't like sportswriters all that much, and I agree that Fay is certainly not my favorite.....but if anybody is allowed to use "they" it seems like someone who makes his living in the business should be able to.

    This article is simpy what many of us have been saying for months. Of course Fay has whined about Bedard and others before we got DOWN to Blanton. Because the need has been there screaming out for years to do ANYTHING to improve this rotation.

    Getting Harang and Arroyo was great, but you cannot just stop there and bring on the yearly parade of wantabees to fill out the rest of it and just shrug your shoulders when it doesn't work.

    Fay says anyone of the youngsters or some combination of them should be able to post a 4.11 ERA......love to see that one!!!!

    As dougD has pointed out, if your 4 and 5 starters post a 4.11 ERA (i.e., league average or such) you should be in pretty good shape. We'll see.
    A 4.11 ERA in GABP is slightly worse than a #2 and significantly better than a #3. That said, its very unlikely that Blanton post a 4.11 ERA or lower.

  9. #8
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Young arm or two are needed

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    A 4.11 ERA in GABP is slightly worse than a #2 and significantly better than a #3. That said, its very unlikely that Blanton post a 4.11 ERA or lower.
    Even if Blanton jumps his ERA to the 4.50 range, it's important to remember that he's capable of maintaining that performance level over a large number of IP.

    Even when you think of things really optimistically with Bailey, Cueto or Volquez, you're looking at probably around 160-170IP. By way of reference, Josh Beckett didn't move north of 160IP until he was 25 (4th season in the bigs). Given that, you're looking at around a 60-70 inning deficit from the expected performance level of a rookie to where a guy like Joe Blanton (230 IP last year) can place you. Even if Blanton drops back to around 215 IP, that's still a 40-50 IP deficit.

    Where are those innings going to come from? The bullpen. Simply put, this bullpen isn't deep enough to cover that extra workload.
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  10. #9
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Young arm or two are needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Even if Blanton jumps his ERA to the 4.50 range, it's important to remember that he's capable of maintaining that performance level over a large number of IP.
    Yes, 200+ innings of 4.50 ERA is very valuable these days.

    Where are those innings going to come from? The bullpen. Simply put, this bullpen isn't deep enough to cover that extra workload.
    I don't think they would come from the bullpen, but more likely they would come in September from maybe a creative rotation where Bailey, Cueto and Maloney work the bullpen once a week then one would start once every 5 days while keeping plenty of rest on his arm.

  11. #10
    Registered User red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Young arm or two are needed

    I know dougDirt, and Mr. Baker, you are no dougDirt.

    DD. I am afraid you are much more creative than one Dusty Baker.

  12. #11
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Young arm or two are needed

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la View Post
    I know dougDirt, and Mr. Baker, you are no dougDirt.

    DD. I am afraid you are much more creative than one Dusty Baker.
    How about we just let Sergio get all of those starts in September?


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