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Thread: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

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    Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    "Our pitching has been much-maligned, but I see some rapid improvement from what I've heard to what I've seen," he added.

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/con...snotesweb.html
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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    Young. Arms.
    "The guy I think could be really good in center is Adam Dunn. If someone asked me if Dunn could be a center fielder for the next 10 years, if he started working on it, no one could explain to me why he couldn’t do it." - Brad Kullman

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    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    before i read the article, i'm crossing myself for the explosion this thread will probably have...
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    after reading it, i generally like what Dusty says in it (aside from Fogg sort of), and i really like what Mercker says in it.
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    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    I am getting more and more pessimistic about the next couple of years. When managers and coaches call a guy a "good young arm" that to me is typical code for he can throw but will never learn or have the talent to actually pitch.

    I would like to think that this review of the talent pipeline of starting pitchers shows that the Reds have the equivalent of Gary Nolan, Wayne Simpson and Don Gullett. But I am afraid it is really Frank Pastore, Bruce Berenyi and ??????.
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la View Post
    But I am afraid it is really Frank Pastore, Bruce Berenyi and ??????.
    How could you forget Mike LaCoss?

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la View Post
    I am getting more and more pessimistic about the next couple of years. When managers and coaches call a guy a "good young arm" that to me is typical code for he can throw but will never learn or have the talent to actually pitch.

    I would like to think that this review of the talent pipeline of starting pitchers shows that the Reds have the equivalent of Gary Nolan, Wayne Simpson and Don Gullett. But I am afraid it is really Frank Pastore, Bruce Berenyi and ??????.
    To be honest with you, I think you're way over interpreting this. IMO, you're carrying 20 years of Reds destitute management on your back and jumping to conclusions that are difficult to make without seeing this year's club in action. It's possible that our big collection of youngsters can be a group like Nolan, Simpson and Gullett (albeit, I hope, without the requisite arms falling off), but even if they're just a step down from that group's peak performances, it wouldn't be bad.

    I'm not reading "code" into Baker's comments - he hasn't seem them in action yet. Let's get some games in, lets start the season up and then you can mail in the pessimism. I just don't think there's enough data to conclude pessimism or optimism one way or the other.
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la View Post
    I am getting more and more pessimistic about the next couple of years. When managers and coaches call a guy a "good young arm" that to me is typical code for he can throw but will never learn or have the talent to actually pitch.
    When I hear "good young arm", I hear that the pitcher is young, he has an arm, and that it is good. No more, no less.

    But maybe I'm just reading too much between the lines.

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    Fogg gives Baker more options

    By Hal McCoy

    Staff Writer

    Thursday, February 21, 2008

    SARASOTA, Fla. — Right-handed pitcher Josh Fogg, who signed a one-year deal with the Cincinnati Reds on Thursday, Feb. 21, fits snugly into the thinking of manager Dusty Baker.

    "Fogg appears to be a guy who is getting better," Baker said of the free-agent signee. "If he can pitch in Colorado, he can pitch anywhere. He was a pretty big man for them down the stretch, so you know he isn't afraid to pitch in big games."

    Fogg, who signed for $1 million, started 29 games for the National League champion Colorado Rockies last year. He was 10-9 with a 4.94 earned run average.

    Baker called him "another guy who knows how to pitch and if one of our young guys isn't ready, it will give him time to get ready."

    The rotation? Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo for sure. And probably Matt Belisle. Then the choices for the final two spots revolve around Homer Bailey, Jeremy Affeldt, Johnny Cueto, Edinson Volquez, Matt Maloney, Fogg "and maybe a surprise or two," said Baker.

    "We're inexperienced, but we have very good arms," he added. "We have some very good arms out there and I'm liking what I'm seeing — not only for now, but for later if we need somebody during the season.

    "Our pitching has been much-maligned, but I see some rapid improvement from what I've heard to what I've seen," he added.

    Hatteberg or Votto?

    Who's on first? Is it veteran Scott Hatteberg or is it rookie Joey Votto? For Baker, it is too early to tell.

    "I haven't seen Votto," he said. "I'm going on what everybody tells me. I've known Hatteberg for years. I had him on my team in the fall league when he was a rookie and I was a rookie manager.

    "Votto is the future here and I talked to Hatteberg about Votto," he said. "He thinks he is going to be a heck of a player. He wasn't conceding his job, but he understands that to be part of the club he has to understand that Votto might be a big part of it; it might be Votto's time.

    "Also, is Votto too young to sit around?" Baker added. "That happened to me and I didn't like it. Hank Aaron (playing Baker's position for the Atlanta Braves) held me back. I was mad at Hank for a while, because I wanted that $18,000 big-league money and I thought I was ready to play and I'd just hit three-and-a-quarter (.325) in Triple-A and made the All-Star team."

    Quote of the day

    "They haven't asked me for my meal money back yet, but I expect to see a fungo bat in my locker any day with a note telling me, 'You've been cut, but earn your meal money and hit some fly balls to the outfielder." — Relief pitcher Kent Mercker on his situation with the team.


    Contact this reporter at hmccoy@DaytonDailyNews.com.
    RIL,

    All I see is "very good arms." I see inexperienced, but the equivalent of "she has a good personality" that you are railing against doesn't seem to be the idea in those quotes. I don't even think its an interpretive matter, other than you are reading something into the comments that is not there.

  11. #10
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    Now Dusty claims he "sat around"? Wasn't it just yesterday he claimed to be put in the fire right away? Can this man make an objective judgment without alluding to his own career?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    This one's for you Edd Heath's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Now Dusty claims he "sat around"? Wasn't it just yesterday he claimed to be put in the fire right away? Can this man make an objective judgment without alluding to his own career?
    He's becoming the Reds version of George O'Leary.
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    Can this man make an objective judgment without alluding to his own career?
    Who cares? Dusty's background as a player gives him a lot of credibility in the clubhouse. If were a player, I'd much rather have a manager who's got that player's streak still in him than a guy who buries his head in a stat sheet and talks in probabilities.

    The guy is a strong personality. That's a good thing, in my opinion.
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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    The guy is a strong personality. That's a good thing, in my opinion.
    Agreed. The season is a grind and Baker's good at keeping his teams "up." He's like human greenies.
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    Member CrackerJack's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    No problems with his comments at all. Good to hear his remarks about Votto, whom I really want to watch play this year

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    Member top6's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's take on Reds pitching

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    If were a player, I'd much rather have a manager who's got that player's streak still in him than a guy who buries his head in a stat sheet and talks in probabilities.
    I would much rather my boss act just like I do as well - but that probably wouldn't be very good for the firm I work at.

    Also, have the Reds EVER had a manger (or even GM) who "buries his head in a stat sheet and talks in probabilities"? I personally can't think of any guys like that who have ever managed in the major leagues. It would actually be kind of refreshing, I think.


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