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Thread: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

  1. #16
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    It's a STREETCAR

    not a TROLLEY!
    That's one Portland's very own.
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds33 View Post
    I can't wait until they get some good restraunts down there, so I have something to do after the game.
    Honestly my man, if you can't find a good restaurant downtown, you're blind. There has been an amazing rebirth of downtown and Over the Rhine the past couple of years and the Banks and the streetcar will only add to that..
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
    -Walt Whitman

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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    Honestly my man, if you can't find a good restaurant downtown, you're blind. There has been an amazing rebirth of downtown and Over the Rhine the past couple of years and the Banks and the streetcar will only add to that..
    I think he means kinda within walking distance.

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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by Bip Roberts View Post
    I think he means kinda within walking distance.
    I would hope the Fountain Square area, where a bunch of good restaurants are located, is walking distance from the stadium for you. Plus, you bring up another great argument for the need for a streetcar system!
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
    -Walt Whitman

  6. #20
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    I would hope the Fountain Square area, where a bunch of good restaurants are located, is walking distance from the stadium for you. Plus, you bring up another great argument for the need for a streetcar system!
    Yea fountain square is depending on where you park. The Banks are just going to be a nice central place.

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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    [QUOTE=Ltlabner;1561529]We'lllllll exxxcccccccuuuuuuuuusssssseeeeeeeeeeee meeeeee....

    [QUOTE]

    Don't take offense, a lot of streetcar supporters get upset when folks refer to it as a trolley because most streetcar opponents will call it a trolley with a negative connotation...
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
    -Walt Whitman

  8. #22
    The Future GoReds33's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    Honestly my man, if you can't find a good restaurant downtown, you're blind. There has been an amazing rebirth of downtown and Over the Rhine the past couple of years and the Banks and the streetcar will only add to that..
    Don't get me wrong, there are good restraunts, but when I park near the stadium, I don't want to have to walk back to the car, and find another place to pay to park. I'm way too lazy to walk to fountain square. I just think that having an entire experience down along the water would be great, if you could go to a game, and then get some good food all along the river. I just hate giving my money to Newport, knowing all that stuff over there should be in Cincinnati in the first place.
    If you can't build a winning team with that core a fire-sale isn't the solution. Selling the franchise, moving them to Nashville and converting GABP into a used car lot is.
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  9. #23
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    1. It is not a trolley. It is a streetcar. A trolley runs on rubber tires, streetcars use rails. Only the latter historically stimulates economical development. (Krono already beat me to this point)
    Though, after talking with a fellow N-Ohio / S-Michigan resident, I realized that there was another city that tried to stimulate economic development with public transportation...

    Now, the Detroit People Mover is more of a joke than anything else.
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  10. #24
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Though, after talking with a fellow N-Ohio / S-Michigan resident, I realized that there was another city that tried to stimulate economic development with public transportation...

    Now, the Detroit People Mover is more of a joke than anything else.
    Are you really equating Detroit's people mover to a street car?

    If not, I apologize in advance, but for others unsure:

    A streetcar is a circulator to replace a car providing stops throughout a neighborhood(s) similar to a bus but more permanent; a people mover is either the equivolent of Roxanne Qualls' bastardization of the Cincinnati streetcar plan, a point to point destination transportation system or as in Detroit's case, an elevated train removed from the ground and the neighborhood that, as the name implies, "moves people."

    The former has been proven time and time again to stimulate the economy, and the only city that has built an initial phase and decided to abondon the project due to poor results is Buffalo, NY. One! (And it was Buffalo. Sorry in advance to those from there, but is a rather depressing city to those who visit it)

    The latter is either meant to replace cars on highways, reduce emissions, and requires a strong destination draw to be successful, or (Detroit)is an attempt at recreating the streetcar, but curiously removes it to the extent that it no longer interacts with the neghborhood (a big reason for treetcar success).

    I am truly curious if Detroit expected/intended the people mover as an economic stimulus, or if it was meant to tie the neighborhoods together better.

    Regarding the trolley/ streetcar semantics, another problem those close to the issue have is the streetcar is modern and sleek, while a trolley is considered nostalgic, yet outdated. As strong as Cincinnati's history is, this "fix" should not be considered going back to one's roots out of desperation or nostalgia, but because it is a proven method for redevelopment and can make cost of living decrease, and make neighborhoods more attractive.

    I know for a fact the day the sreetcar is approved, I am investing in OTR, and it will only add onto the incredible momentum that has started.
    Last edited by DoogMinAmo; 03-01-2008 at 08:44 PM.
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  11. #25
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by DoogMinAmo View Post
    Are you really equating Detroit's people mover to a street car?

    If not, I apologize in advance, but for others unsure:

    A streetcar is a circulator to replace a car providing stops throughout a neighborhood(s) similar to a bus but more permanent; a people mover is either the equivolent of Roxanne Qualls' bastardization of the Cincinnati streetcar plan, a point to point destination transportation system or as in Detroit's case, an elevated train removed from the ground and the neighborhood that, as the name implies, "moves people."
    The Detroit People Mover is a 2.9 mile piece of closed track that operates as a loop within the city of Detroit. There are 13 stations within that loop -- basically placing a station once every 1200 feet.

    Like the Streetcar, the DPM was proposed as the 'start' of a larger mass transit system that never developed. Redevelopment of the areas surrounding stations never actually occurred either. Ridership of the DPM was expected to be roughly 60,000 daily, but right now is at roughly 5,000 per day.

    Having been a former resident of the N-OH area and a frequent visitor to Detroit, I can say that most residents consider the DPM to be a total joke. Nobody rides it, and most people consider the DPM to be an unsafe method of transportation.

    A streetcar is a nice, forward thinking idea, but the city should go to school on what happened in Detroit instead of wishfully thinking that they can follow Portlands model in a city with a COMPLETELY different demographic, location, and population base.
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by GoReds33 View Post
    Don't get me wrong, there are good restraunts, but when I park near the stadium, I don't want to have to walk back to the car, and find another place to pay to park. I'm way too lazy to walk to fountain square. I just think that having an entire experience down along the water would be great, if you could go to a game, and then get some good food all along the river. I just hate giving my money to Newport, knowing all that stuff over there should be in Cincinnati in the first place.
    Sounds great GoReds, I usually park at Fountain Square for Reds games so I'm used to walking there after the game and going to a few establishments in that area. You're right, the Banks will be a great place to enjoy after the game. My hope is for the Banks not to turn into a suburban mall playground. Hopefully, the Banks is distinct, unique, "Cincinnati" and with its own character.

    Doog, it's wonderful to hear of your interest in OTR. Have you seen the Gateway Quarter lately? That area looks amazing!
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
    -Walt Whitman

  13. #27
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    The Detroit People Mover is a 2.9 mile piece of closed track that operates as a loop within the city of Detroit. There are 13 stations within that loop -- basically placing a station once every 1200 feet.

    Like the Streetcar, the DPM was proposed as the 'start' of a larger mass transit system that never developed. Redevelopment of the areas surrounding stations never actually occurred either. Ridership of the DPM was expected to be roughly 60,000 daily, but right now is at roughly 5,000 per day.

    Having been a former resident of the N-OH area and a frequent visitor to Detroit, I can say that most residents consider the DPM to be a total joke. Nobody rides it, and most people consider the DPM to be an unsafe method of transportation.

    A streetcar is a nice, forward thinking idea, but the city should go to school on what happened in Detroit instead of wishfully thinking that they can follow Portlands model in a city with a COMPLETELY different demographic, location, and population base.
    http://www.thepeoplemover.com/WE-LL-...HERE!.id.2.htm

    I have a bit of an idea what it is, I am by no means an expert. But it is in all essence a people mover/ transportation device, not a street car.

    The DPM reminds me of Chicago's "L". It is good for transportation, but its design is not ideal for development, beyond the very important removal from the street. Checking out the route it seems some very important principles behind Cincinnati's route are lost/ not used.

    -There is a visual connection that must be attained and maintained at any point in order for it to orient and truly establish itself in the neighborhood. The DPM is in a round loop spread out around the city. While length of track is similar to Cincinnati, the one proposed here is very narrow, making it easy to get off, walk a block or two, maintain visual connection without disorientation, explore, and return "safely." Good for development, not as good for people moving.

    -Redundancy of blocks served: importantly the realization that redevelopment occurs largely within 3 blocks of rail tracks, so a close parallel loop strengthens the redevelopment/ affected area with a strong core, and then slowly works out from the center. Good for development, not as good fro people moving.

    -Cincy's route is service and destination oriented: Findlay Market for some groceries, Gateway Quarter for some shopping, Banks/GABP for a game, Fountain Square for dinner or a drink, Main street to party afterwards. Detroit's may connect the dots as well, but the connections seem more event or tourist oriented. Granted, I am not a Detroit resident, so maybe that is an outsider's take, but it is an observation nevertheless.


    That much being said, I am sure the PM is a plus for those in the city, and 5K ridership is nothing to ignore, especially with their low numbers of downtown residence.

    But do not discount most importantly the connection with the street. Remember when the Skywalk was heralded as the future and a great move for Cincinnati and others? Now very few remain nation-wide, as they have effectively killed downtowns. The connection to the street was lost, fewere people around means crime takes over, which means even fewer want to show up.

    Not that the DPM is killing Detroit, it is just that if you elevate everyone above the street, how can that help the city? You do not see what retailers are available along the route. You do not see people walking. You are not within, but above. A streetcar focuses attention on the route itself, while elevated trains are destination and station oriented. The effective area is a fraction with one versus the other. Lower the DPM, it works a ton better.

    Demographics and studies were performed extensively, exhaustingly, and thoroughly. From what little I know, it seems much has been learned from the DPM and the like.

    And who is to say that Cincinnati is so much closer to Detroit than Portland (other than geographically)?
    "I'm a Cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. Please don't send me to the pickle farm, bum." - Brak

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  14. #28
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    Sounds great GoReds, I usually park at Fountain Square for Reds games so I'm used to walking there after the game and going to a few establishments in that area. You're right, the Banks will be a great place to enjoy after the game. My hope is for the Banks not to turn into a suburban mall playground. Hopefully, the Banks is distinct, unique, "Cincinnati" and with its own character.

    Doog, it's wonderful to hear of your interest in OTR. Have you seen the Gateway Quarter lately? That area looks amazing!
    Yep, amazing now, and from what I hear in the near future it is only going to get better and better. Rumors have a brownie boutique on its way, in addition to Lavomatic that just opened, an outdoor furniture store on its way, a furniture store that just opened, a coffee house, and a couple more restaurants. Really exciting stuff, not to mention Grammer's is open again!
    "I'm a Cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. Please don't send me to the pickle farm, bum." - Brak

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  15. #29
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...402/1056/COL02

    To those skeptical until ground gets turned...
    "I'm a Cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. Please don't send me to the pickle farm, bum." - Brak

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  16. #30
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    Re: Cincinnati Banks: Its Official

    After going to Findlay Market Saturday for the beer tastin' (loved the new Barbarosa from Moerlein) - am hopeful the street car system will get the extension paths proposed, as I think they're critical.

    Reaching up into Clifton, to Union Terminal, the riverfront and Newport, as well as down Columbia Parkway, seems to be what may make the whole thing tick.

    Of course, conservative Cincinnatians will fear it will just serve to shuttle criminals out of OTR to out-lying areas with ease to prey on those at the Levee and the surrounding neighborhoods - but that won't happen in this case. Idiots like Deters or Leis, I believe, compared it to "Jurassic Park."

    To be honest I want OTR back, my relatives helped build that area and lived there at one time. there are so many incredible buildings just going to waste. The poor that are there now, were "put there" by the government in the 1950's, they have no claim to it. I certainly am not into just evicting people en masse, but de-centralizing that area over time as is happening now.

    One trip to Findlay opens one's eyes to the vast potential of downtown Cincy and OTR - it's unique and probably one of the last, large treasure troves of Victorian Italianate architecture, among other things.

    I would LOVE to be able to hop on a street car from our home on weekends and hit Findlay for some fresh, regional, organic produce, and have a beer or two at one of the breweries that are starting to pop up again.

    If it fails -fine - but not trying to save that area and reinvest in the downtown metro area is not an option for a growing number of people who grew up here and don't want to see the city turn into Detroit.


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