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Thread: Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

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    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

    RedsZone will absolutely love this.

    Per Fay:

    Dusty Baker wants his hitters to hit. He likes aggressive hitters. He was talking about Joey Votto and finished with this:

    “I really, really hate the called third strike. I hate that. You're guess and you ain't ready to hit.”

    Does the aggressive stuff go for Adam Dunn, too? “Like I said, I don't like called third strikes. Dunn’s not a kid. He's not old, but he ain't a kid. I bet you he gets better. He's from Texas, right. There’s not a cow in Texas if he don’t get better.”

    “He wants to get better. Barry Bonds he always told me Dunn would be one of the best around. Comes to hitting, Barry’s got a pretty good idea.”

    On Votto: “He needs to swing some more. I talked to him about that. Strikeouts aren't the only criteria. I'd like to see him more aggressive.”

    “A lot of this on-base percentage is taking away the aggressiveness of some young kids. Most of the time you’ve got to put handcuffs on a young to keep him from swinging.”

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    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Per Fay: Dusty tells Votto to swing more....OBP doesn't matter

    Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness




    Dusty Baker wants his hitters to hit. He likes aggressive hitters. He was talking about Joey Votto and finished with this:

    “I really, really hate the called third strike. I hate that. You're guess and you ain't ready to hit.”

    Does the aggressive stuff go for Adam Dunn, too? “Like I said, I don't like called third strikes. Dunn’s not a kid. He's not old, but he ain't a kid. I bet you he gets better. He's from Texas, right. There’s not a cow in Texas if he don’t get better.”

    “He wants to get better. Barry Bonds he always told me Dunn would be one of the best around. Comes to hitting, Barry’s got a pretty good idea.”

    On Votto: “He needs to swing some more. I talked to him about that. Strikeouts aren't the only criteria. I'd like to see him more aggressive.”

    “A lot of this on-base percentage is taking away the aggressiveness of some young kids. Most of the time you’ve got to put handcuffs on a young to keep him from swinging.”
    Dusty is just nuts. There is a clear correlation to between OBP and runs scored. In 2007, the Phils were #1 in OBP and #1 in runs scored. The Reds were 8th in OBP, and 7th in runs scored. The Astros were 10th in OBP, and 13th in runs scored. Arizona was 16th in OBP, and 14th in runs scored. Etc....
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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

    "There's not a cow in Texas if he don't get better." What in the world does that mean?
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    Re: Per Fay: Dusty tells Votto to swing more....OBP doesn't matter

    Take cover....

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    Re: Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

    I think what Dusty is trying to say, in clumsy fashion, is don't watch strike three sail by you. I suspect we all agree with that. If you can incorporate that with "don't swing at bad pitches" that's fine. Where you can get into trouble is when a hitter, especially a young guy like Votto, takes that advice as a call to reconstruct himself and he begins swinging at bad pitches.
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    Re: Per Fay: Dusty tells Votto to swing more....OBP doesn't matter

    Quote Originally Posted by mbgrayson View Post
    Dusty is just nuts. There is a clear correlation to between OBP and runs scored. In 2007, the Phils were #1 in OBP and #1 in runs scored. The Reds were 8th in OBP, and 7th in runs scored. The Astros were 10th in OBP, and 13th in runs scored. Arizona was 16th in OBP, and 14th in runs scored. Etc....
    Two sides to that. I agree that OBP is extrmely valuable and obviously leads to runs scored. HOWEVER, in Votto's case I don't want him at the plate guessing and taking very hittable pitches just to work a count. Possibly striking out. (Maybe if you are leading off an inning, it's a new pitcher, etc.) If it's a tie game the winning run is on 3rd and there's none or 1 out you need to try and put a good swing on a strike. Especially a hitter like Votto. Castro maybe a different strategy.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Re: Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    "There's not a cow in Texas if he don't get better." What in the world does that mean?
    From now on I am just calling those types of quotes from Dusty.... "Dusty Speak".
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    "There's not a cow in Texas if he don't get better." What in the world does that mean?
    He's guaranteeing that Dunn will get better. Cows in Texas are a given - he's saying it's a given that Dunn will become an even better hitter. That certainly will be open to debate, but that's what he's saying.
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    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Per Fay: Dusty tells Votto to swing more....OBP doesn't matter

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    Two sides to that. I agree that OBP is extrmely valuable and obviously leads to runs scored. HOWEVER, in Votto's case I don't want him at the plate guessing and taking very hittable pitches just to work a count. Possibly striking out. (Maybe if you are leading off an inning, it's a new pitcher, etc.) If it's a tie game the winning run is on 3rd and there's none or 1 out you need to try and put a good swing on a strike. Especially a hitter like Votto. Castro maybe a different strategy.
    Quite true. Strategy is indeed situational.

    However, Dusty has been critical of OBP way too many times to have been simply misunderstood. His record of batting .300 OBP guys at the top of the order is well established. What he is saying is NOT just situational, but Dusty's Golden Rule 'Thall shalt always swing away and not worry about walks or OBP.'
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    Re: Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

    I like the "cow in Texas" quote. I would have preferred something like "If Dunner don't get better, there ain't no syringes in Barry Bonds' basement" but it's early in the season. I think Dusty's interesting quotes can and will get even better. He will keep us entertained all year. And I can't wait for the "we're winning in spite of Dusty" threads.

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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

    think what Dusty is trying to say, in clumsy fashion, is don't watch strike three sail by you. I suspect we all agree with that. If you can incorporate that with "don't swing at bad pitches" that's fine. Where you can get into trouble is when a hitter, especially a young guy like Votto, takes that advice as a call to reconstruct himself and he begins swinging at bad pitches.


    Two sides to that. I agree that OBP is extrmely valuable and obviously leads to runs scored. HOWEVER, in Votto's case I don't want him at the plate guessing and taking very hittable pitches just to work a count. Possibly striking out. (Maybe if you are leading off an inning, it's a new pitcher, etc.) If it's a tie game the winning run is on 3rd and there's none or 1 out you need to try and put a good swing on a strike. Especially a hitter like Votto. Castro maybe a different strategy.
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    Re: Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

    What about the "we're losing because of Dusty" threads?
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    Re: Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I think what Dusty is trying to say, in clumsy fashion, is don't watch strike three sail by you. I suspect we all agree with that. If you can incorporate that with "don't swing at bad pitches" that's fine. Where you can get into trouble is when a hitter, especially a young guy like Votto, takes that advice as a call to reconstruct himself and he begins swinging at bad pitches.
    Yeah... my sense is that he was talking about process and not outcome. Despite all his reactionary comments about OBP, he didn't have a problem with all those walks Barry Bonds drew when he managing the Giants. But clearly, he doesn't like emphasizing the "take" in "take and rake" to the point where hitters are passing up hittable pitches or not protecting the plate with two strikes. Maybe he's right, maybe he isn't, but as long as he's not telling them to swing at junk because walks are bad...
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    Re: Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I think what Dusty is trying to say, in clumsy fashion, is don't watch strike three sail by you. I suspect we all agree with that. If you can incorporate that with "don't swing at bad pitches" that's fine. Where you can get into trouble is when a hitter, especially a young guy like Votto, takes that advice as a call to reconstruct himself and he begins swinging at bad pitches.
    Yep, Dusty was spinning this same stuff in the Giants camp when he first showed up, mostly addressing Willie McGees approach as what he liked, guys that hit the ball more than they miss it.

    Well Dusty the batting coach needs to remember that not everyone has the same approach and that not everyone will have success with the approach he espouses.

    But being aggressive doesn't mean swinging at out of the zone pitches like Vlad either... Dusty knows THAT.

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    Re: Dusty on Votto, Dunn and aggressiveness

    I bet Brandon Phillips will give Dusty multiple orgasms this year with his GIDPs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"



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