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Thread: Catcher

  1. #61
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    Re: Catcher

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Pitcher, Adam Rosales. Catcher, Adam Rosales. First base, Adam Rosales. Second base, Adam Rosales ...

    exactly. I mean, Dusty was raving about him being in the cutoff position, right? And why was he raving about a simple cutoff play? It's because on the same play Rosales has also played the RF carom correctly, fired a bullet to himself, then one hopped the throw to third where he made a brilliant tag.

    bad call on play by ump. I suppose that it was hard to see through that cloud of dust, plus he might have been distracted by the bolt of lighting.

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  3. #62
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Catcher

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    IF, and it's a big if, Dave Ross is healthy, I don't see any of the solutions being tossed around in this thread representing an overall upgrade...
    I concur. If there were some options that represent clear, significant improvements, I'd be on board. But presuming Ross is healthy, he's as good as we're going to get short term and relative to the catcher position around baseball, isn't nearly as bad as we think.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #63
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    Re: Catcher

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    ....isn't nearly as bad as we think.
    Some think that he's worse than we think. Not quite a Yogi-ism but close.....

    Rem

  5. #64
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Catcher

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I concur. If there were some options that represent clear, significant improvements, I'd be on board. But presuming Ross is healthy, he's as good as we're going to get short term and relative to the catcher position around baseball, isn't nearly as bad as we think.
    I suspect that better than a .260 OB vs. RHPs with better defense could be had.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  6. #65
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Catcher

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I suspect that better than a .260 OB vs. RHPs with better defense could be had.
    His career OBP against RHP is .295 and I personally like his defense, but I put more emphasis on throwing out base stealers than "handling the pitching staff"...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  7. #66
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    Re: Catcher

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    His career OBP against RHP is .295 and I personally like his defense, but I put more emphasis on throwing out base stealers than "handling the pitching staff"...
    Not to get into the Dave Ross argument too deeply, but the arguments from those who don't care for Ross's defense extend well beyond "handling the pitching staff."

    Seriously, Ross is the definition of fungible. And now he's hurt. Why not try to find someone with at least one real strength instead of total mediocrity? I'd recommend using the route that Krivsky used to snag Ross in the first place--comb the minors/majors for guys blocked out of a starting gig.

  8. #67
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Catcher

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Seriously, Ross is the definition of fungible. And now he's hurt.
    and any player with a back problem is serious ... but especially a catcher.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  9. #68
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Catcher

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    His career OBP against RHP is .295 and I personally like his defense, but I put more emphasis on throwing out base stealers than "handling the pitching staff"...
    I put more emphasis on throwing too. Heck, I kind of pioneered that thinking round these here parts.

    Yet when all you've got is throwing it leaves me wanting. I'll be surprised if Ross can get all that close to his career average OB vs. RHPs and I question whether he'll be any better than that vs. LHPs.

    What I see is an out machine with a horrific plate approach and now he's 31 with health issues to boot. That's a recipe for a disaster, like a .250 OB disaster, an Irwin Allen type disaster, a disaster of Castrovian proportions.

    Anyway, my take is a catcher with a .300+ OB needs to be found, preferably this catcher will also be able to throw, and maybe he can add some receiving skills to boot.

    I know you mentioned in a game thread that Laird doesn't thrill you, but he's only 28 and I think he's got a plate approach that will net better results in the coming years (catchers frequently turn out to be late bloomers -- and then they fade early too, basically catchers are a pain in the butt is what I'm saying).

    Jeff Mathis is a kid I'd love to have. He turns 25 later this month and he's just about at the place where he might do a little something at the plate to go with his defensive skills. Mind you, I don't know what the Angels might need at the moment or whether Mathis could be had by the team who could fill that need.

    I don't think there's any sexy options out there, but I do think the Reds need to find a catcher on his way up rather than stay anchored to Ross, who looks to be going down quickly.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  10. #69
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    Re: Catcher

    M2, I think your description basically describes the pre-2006 Jason LaRue. I'll tell you, as much crap as he got around here, he sure solidified that spot for a decent chunk of time (5 years). He sure wasn't a guy that knocked your socks off with each individual skill, but I'd love to find a guy like that to bring into the fold.

  11. #70
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    Re: Catcher

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I put more emphasis on throwing too. Heck, I kind of pioneered that thinking round these here parts.

    Yet when all you've got is throwing it leaves me wanting. I'll be surprised if Ross can get all that close to his career average OB vs. RHPs and I question whether he'll be any better than that vs. LHPs.
    I don't expect 2006 Dave Ross to return, but with a bump in batting average thanks to some better luck, I can see his OBP back around .300 in 2008 (if he can get healthy, which I will admit has me very concerned)...

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    What I see is an out machine with a horrific plate approach and now he's 31 with health issues to boot. That's a recipe for a disaster, like a .250 OB disaster, an Irwin Allen type disaster, a disaster of Castrovian proportions.

    Anyway, my take is a catcher with a .300+ OB needs to be found, preferably this catcher will also be able to throw, and maybe he can add some receiving skills to boot.

    I know you mentioned in a game thread that Laird doesn't thrill you, but he's only 28 and I think he's got a plate approach that will net better results in the coming years (catchers frequently turn out to be late bloomers -- and then they fade early too, basically catchers are a pain in the butt is what I'm saying).
    I can also forsee a quick decline in store for Ross, but I'm curious what it is about Laird's approach that has you so excited. Have you looked at his stats from last year? He was worse than Ross! As to a better approach than Ross, lets compare there 2007 results. In 311 AB's, Ross walked 30 times and struck out 92 times. Laird, on the other hand, had 407 AB's, walking 30 times and striking out 103 times. Laird is basically a two years younger and healthier version of Ross... but at what cost? I believe many teams have called the Rangers and they have been asking a high price. Is he some sort of defensive whiz I don't know about?

    BTW this from MLBTR:

    Laird Likely To Stay Put
    According to MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan, the Rangers don't plan on trading catcher Gerald Laird despite some interested parties. In fact, Laird could catch 100+ games this year despite last year's Jarrod Saltalamacchia acquisition. Salty could take a smaller role with the big club or get some Triple A seasoning. It's easy to forget that he skipped that level.

    The Rangers prefer Laird's strong defense and spotty offense to Salty's subpar defense and offensive potential. And it's not fair to write Laird off offensively quite yet; he hit well in a half-season in '06. '07 was his first year catching full-time.

    The Rangers have a third future MLB-quality backstop in Taylor Teagarden. They've also got Cristian Santana and Max Ramirez in the organization, two guys who are less certain to become starting catchers in the bigs. Interesting prospects nonetheless. Jon Daniels has an uncommon surplus on his hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Jeff Mathis is a kid I'd love to have. He turns 25 later this month and he's just about at the place where he might do a little something at the plate to go with his defensive skills. Mind you, I don't know what the Angels might need at the moment or whether Mathis could be had by the team who could fill that need.

    I don't think there's any sexy options out there, but I do think the Reds need to find a catcher on his way up rather than stay anchored to Ross, who looks to be going down quickly.
    I like Mathis But as usual, what is the price? It all depends on the price.

    I'd like to see Krivsky do his thing and find the next David Ross...
    Last edited by *BaseClogger*; 03-11-2008 at 07:11 PM.
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  12. #71
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Catcher

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I suspect that better than a .260 OB vs. RHPs with better defense could be had.
    Depends on how many catchers you want to carry...
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #72
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Catcher

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I don't expect 2006 Dave Ross to return, but with a bump in batting average thanks to some better luck, I can see his OBP back around .300 in 2008 (if he can get healthy, which I will admit has me very concerned)...
    I'm thinking his physical decline and generally awfully swing will overcome any luck bump that might have been coming his way.

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I can also forsee a quick decline in store for Ross, but I'm curious what it is about Laird's approach that has you so excited. Have you looked at his stats from last year? He was worse than Ross! As to a better approach than Ross, lets compare there 2007 results. In 311 AB's, Ross walked 30 times and struck out 92 times. Laird, on the other hand, had 407 AB's, walking 30 times and striking out 103 times. Laird is basically a two years younger and healthier version of Ross... but at what cost? I believe many teams have called the Rangers and they have been asking a high price. Is he some sort of defensive whiz I don't know about?
    Laird's got an organized swing, good balance. I know his numbers were in the toilet last year, but he's got mechanics which could lead to a .270ish BA. He was .271/.344/.406 in the minors and, given his size, more power might be in the offing now that he's in his late 20s.

    As for price, I couldn't tell you what the Rangers want, but they've made a habit of giving talented people away. Take advantage of Jon Daniels before he's gone I say.

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I like Mathis But as usual, what is the price? It all depends on the price.

    I'd like to see Krivsky do his thing and find the next David Ross...
    The Angels hold onto guys forever. Usually I think it's to their detriment, but in Mathis' case their stubborn approach might prove lucky.

    As for the [i]next[i] Dave Ross, the thing about finding that is as soon as you've got it, you need to find the next next Dave Ross. He was was a one-hit, part-time wonder. A bad 2008 from him will turn his tenure with the Reds into a net loss, making 2006 into little more than an aberration.

    I'd like to see the team find a more stable solution.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  14. #73
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    Re: Catcher

    Jeff Mathis would be a fine acquisition, as would someone like Kelly Shoppach, though I'm not sure how good defensively he is.

  15. #74
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    Re: Catcher

    Taylor Teagarden sounds like a good target. What is he, 3rd on the depth chart?
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
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  16. #75
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    Re: Catcher

    Well, first of all, one of the best ways to improve your team is to improve your weakest position. Of the starting eight (we'll set pitching aside for the moment) catcher would seem to me to fit that billing.

    Secondly, if you're going to shake the Angels tree, let's go all out and go for Mike Napoli. A 'quasi' starter in the past and, at age 27, should be ready to take on about 110-120 starts. Decent defensively and an OK bat. His lifetime stats indicate that you're likely to get about.235/.350/.450. Not the numbers to make anyone forget Johnny Bench but I like him a whole lot better than David Ross.

    The Angels 'won' a trade with the Reds before (Ramon Ortiz/Dustin Moseley), maybe they think they will again. Give it a shot. I look at the Angels roster and they look solid but sometimes a team in that position will take a role player and a prospect if they think that their backup (Mathis) can step in and do an adequate job.

    Rem


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